1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

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jeremydta
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1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#1 Post by jeremydta » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:40 pm

Hi All. Have just finished a Titan 48, and now making some tops to match. Have decided on 12in Otops. Use is mainly live rock, also some prerecorded occasional DJing. My head is spinning with the choices of 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover. It would be appreciated if people could chime in with their experienced and pros and cons of each. Also, has anyone got any experience with the new F151 M8 CD that is recommended as the new low crossover option in the plans, thanks! and Happy New Year, Jeremy

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#2 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:32 pm

The dispersion angle from 1.2kHz to 2kHz (don't know where you got the 1.8 from) is wider. However, it's much narrower throughout the highs than the melded array. You should only consider it when you have at least a two cab stack, and then still with a melded array on the lower OTop.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#3 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:18 am

As I've stated many times on the forum.....the 1.2k crossover option is a much better sounding box. Nicer vocal tone than the melded array. However, the melded array has an incredibly wide dispersion.

I'm also a firm believer that you should run two OT12s per side. When the two boxes couple, the midrange really sounds nice and warm. Even in my smallest gigs - I run two per side, just for the sound quality even if I don't need the volume.

So, the question is this - what type of venues are you in? Are there people sitting close to the PA off to the side? If yes, then definitely use the melded array. If all of your venues have the crowd a little further back and the CD horn has enough dispersion to hit everyone, then go with the CD horn.

If you want the most versatility, then do as Bill said and I did - build a pair of each with the melded arrays on the bottom.....but definitely build the CD horn with the 1.2k crossover option.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

himhimself
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#4 Post by himhimself » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:57 am

I built my 4 otops with melded piezos on the bottom, straight on top (2 cabs per side). I have not had an opportunity to compare directly with CD versions. I hear from some they like the CD better, but I can tell you my cabinets sound amazing and the horizontal coverage is stupid, so no complaints whatsoever.
2xT30 (20", 3012lf)
4xOtop Jarray

ACUA
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#5 Post by ACUA » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:47 pm

I have built an array of otop12s, I like mine a lot, I went cd horns with the 2k crossover for cost and simplicity, if I had it to do all over I would try really hard to spring for the 1.2k configuration. I agree that when done right its a better configuration, I like the sound better personally I just don't know what else to say.

with my cd horns the high frequency dispersion is not as wide as some would like. many of the gigs I do need really wide coverage, parks and weddings with stuff going on in all directions, I tend to separate my cabs often in many directions to get coverage. I had my heart set on active bi-amping to the tops so melded array was not my initial priority but after some discussion here I am itching to try it out.
Advanced concepts underground audio

jeremydta
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#6 Post by jeremydta » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:56 pm

ok so it seems as if most think the CD sounds "better" than the piezo options, but the dispersion is less. better sound vs wider dispersion? what are people's experience with the pros and cons of these
also some concerns with the Piezos - is it possible to test them to see if they are functioning properly? is it possible to repair them? or do you have to replace the whole thing? what's the reliability?
and if I do build a melded array, is it best to put a top hat on the top and bottom so I can stack a CD Otop on it later?

jeremydta
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#7 Post by jeremydta » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 pm

Ok, So I went ahead and ordered stuff to make the melded array version, but still interested in the other questions, Cheers

Bruce Weldy
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#8 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:45 am

jeremydta wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:56 pm
, is it best to put a top hat on the top and bottom so I can stack a CD Otop on it later?
No reason to. Use the chevron corners and the OTops lock in and stack perfectly. Been doing it for years.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

jeremydta
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:16 am

Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#9 Post by jeremydta » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:41 am

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:45 am
jeremydta wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:56 pm
, is it best to put a top hat on the top and bottom so I can stack a CD Otop on it later?
No reason to. Use the chevron corners and the OTops lock in and stack perfectly. Been doing it for years.
do you have to strap them together? What if someone bumps the stand?

Bruce Weldy
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#10 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:39 am

jeremydta wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:41 am
Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:45 am
jeremydta wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:56 pm
, is it best to put a top hat on the top and bottom so I can stack a CD Otop on it later?
No reason to. Use the chevron corners and the OTops lock in and stack perfectly. Been doing it for years.
do you have to strap them together? What if someone bumps the stand?
The whole thing will fall over before the OTop on top will come off. Those corners lock 'em together and they can't slide off. If you strap 'em together and the stand comes over - you will then get hit by two tops instead of maybe just one. :mrgreen:

I strap my tops on my subs when I do a split sub situation, but that's because the stack is 8 feet tall.

Always try to orient your speaker stands where one leg is toward the back as the OTops are a bit back heavy. And try to position them where the legs aren't in a walking path. And if they are, put something around the base.....either a skirt or chairs or something that will get the attention of the people who aren't looking where they are going. And lay the law down to children who want to get close to the gear. Better to hurt their feelings than to have a problem.

And get some liability insurance.....your homeowners won't cover you if you are getting paid. Not easy to find a company that covers what we do with sound systems, but there's a couple out there. I use Snapp and Assoc. out of San Diego.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

wbredin
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#11 Post by wbredin » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:20 pm

Hey guys, i'm in the process of finishing my 4 Otop 12's with 3012HO's and PSD 2013 CD's. I had all the pieces to make the 1.2khz crossovers, but left the country for a while and lost the parts :(. So i'm now unsure what to do. I'm only back in town for a little while and i'm considering buying the premade 2khz crossovers online for the sake of ease, but, I do realize this isn't the 'best' sounding option. How much of a difference would the 1.2 vs 2khz make? I know it subjective, but i'm leaving the country again soon and just want to get these done. Thoughts?

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#12 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:24 pm

Buy more parts.

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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#13 Post by Grant Bunter » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:30 pm

wbredin wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:20 pm
Hey guys, i'm in the process of finishing my 4 Otop 12's with 3012HO's and PSD 2013 CD's. I had all the pieces to make the 1.2khz crossovers, but left the country for a while and lost the parts :(. So i'm now unsure what to do. I'm only back in town for a little while and i'm considering buying the premade 2khz crossovers online for the sake of ease, but, I do realize this isn't the 'best' sounding option. How much of a difference would the 1.2 vs 2khz make? I know it subjective, but i'm leaving the country again soon and just want to get these done. Thoughts?
The issue with using the pre made crossovers will be they are not the custom designed ones from Bill to get the best out of your cabs, and protect your CD's more at the same time.
The list of what's required is in the plans to make the 1.2K crossover. or Leland at Speakerhardware.com will hook you up.
He'll even make you the 1.2 crossovers if you want, and send them so all you have to do is wire up and close the cabs.
You went to the effort to make the cabs capable of a 1.2K crossover, so do that...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

wbredin
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#14 Post by wbredin » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:56 pm

Hey I appreciate the sage advice. I'll shoot an email to Leland and see if he can help me out. Thanks again!

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LelandCrooks
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Re: 1.2 vs 1.8 crossover? pros and cons

#15 Post by LelandCrooks » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:30 pm

On it.
If it's too loud, you're even older than me! Like me.
http://www.speakerhardware.com

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