What to use as front fill speakers?

[heavybdrums]

I am using 2 X DR 250 and 2 X Titan 39 (soon to be 4) for my front of house arrangement for live sound.
Lets say I was outside at a festival and the stage was pretty wide causing a wide separation of the DR250's, with the 2 Titans at front center stage and felt that a center/front fill pair of speakers would be nice sitting on the V plated titans facing the audience that is close to the stage and subs. This is basically a situation where the stage is wide and the front and center audience tends to be slightly behind the mains and not catching them like they would say 10 more feet back.

Knowing about not mixing different types of speakers in a set up what would you recommend to use as front fills in combination with the DR250's and Titan 39's.

Here is a stage photo of a good sounding setup where I just think front fills would be nice:



My first thought is a pair of WH 10's, however I would like the front fills not to be angle backed like monitors.

[David Raehn]

Look at the geometry of the Wedgehorns.

There are 4 sides available to place the throat straight out.

Laying it on its side will give you a wide vertical pattern.

Laying it on its top or bottom will give you a wide horizontal pattern.

You may want to EQ them a little different from the mains.

Not a bad idea at all in my opinion.

If your using it for filling in an area under served my the mains, there shouldn't be an issue with the horn-mixing.

Others here have done it.

Just my two cents.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

If it's a more or less permanent install I'd hand a W8 or two on the front rafters, separately powered and EQ'd.

[Bruce Weldy]

With the DRs toed-in like that, unless someone is spending the whole time two feet from the stage, there is no need for front fill. Did you walk up there and check it out? Most of the time it just isn't worth it - trying to add coverage for such a tiny spot.

I'm splitting my tops about 40 feet, they aren't toed-in - and you can hear everything just fine five feet from the stage.

[kkip]

I've never used DR250s, but my experience with OT12s is that when they are spread wide outdoors, front fill is definitely worth the extra effort. The last time I didn't front fill, the band had a drummer that just crushed the cymbals. They were so loud (with the overhead mics muted) that the guitars, keys and vocals sounded too thin stage center out 15-20ft or more. The next time I setup outside for this band, I used a Yamaha floor monitor on the stage facing the audience which made a significant improvement. My longer term plan is to use a Simplexx wedge.

[dswpro]

I sometimes use a W8 in the front of the drum riser sitting straight up. I use black shelf-liner to keep it from moving around. Works great.

[heavybdrums]

With the DRs toed-in like that, unless someone is spending the whole time two feet from the stage, there is no need for front fill. Did you walk up there and check it out? Most of the time it just isn't worth it - trying to add coverage for such a tiny spot.

I'm splitting my tops about 40 feet, they aren't toed-in - and you can hear everything just fine five feet from the stage.

I do often experience audience members that will go as far forward as they can physically go (shying them off the stage sometimes) and spending the whole show there.
I did travel all around the site listening, very close then far out. Everything sounded great more than 15 ft. from the stage and all the way back, except that I am seeing the need for 4 Titan 39's, v plated across the front of this and other stages that are wide.
What I found close up is that when you are relatively closer to the subs than the tops the balance is understandably toward favoring sub content than tops content.
I do like the subs across the front/center of the stage for the air movement affect for those close in, but at that area I want some fill speakers to balance out what folks standing at the subs hear. Close in you hear more stage sound and less from the pa (excepting the subs)
The towing in of the tops was in response to what I experienced standing at the subs to help this. At many gigs early on I notice most folks are far out from the stage and later on when it's dark people crowd to the front of the lighted stage. This causes me to tow the mains in and out as the night goes on in response.

This is a fine remedy if you don't have any front fills, but for folks at farther distances I would like the tops pointed straight out as that sounds better far away.
I know the 120 deg of dispersion is great and all but, the more off axis you are, the less you are getting from tops. It starts with the highest frequencies and diminishes volume from there the more off axis you are. It's just a question of how much high end diminish is acceptable
I'm not a physicist, I just know what I hear from walking this and other outdoor venues.
It has appeared to me twice now on stages that are more than 30 ft wide, or setups that require mains to be that far apart or more, or stages where audience members are belly up to the stage and nearly behind the mains and relatively far from them compared to the subs.
Those narrower, smaller stages this doesn't occur. Audience proximity to mains versus subs is not as much different on smaller stages.
The front fill need to go from 100hz up as the rest of the range is in the subs.

[heavybdrums]

If it's a more or less permanent install I'd hand a W8 or two on the front rafters, separately powered and EQ'd.

Separately powered and eq'd is the idea. There is no permanent install in my future, though I like the rafters idea. I like taking my portable gym/pa wherever I can fit it in. Heck half the reason I first became a drummer was the art and physicality of it.