Limiting question

[ChrisMcCune]

Hi all. I am having a heck of a time figuring out how to set my limiters in my PA+ maybe y'all can shed some light..

Im running a presonus studiolive 16.0.2 into a PA+ into QSC GX5's 2 t39's 3012lf with Peavey sp's for tops

Im getting about 80v with the presonus at clipping, maxed on the rear output, and amps wide open.

In order to get the desired 50v and not engage limiters constantly on the PA+, Ive had to turn down my output level on the back of the presonus mixer, or bring down the gain in the crossover section of the PA+.

It seems like the board is putting out a heck of a lot of voltage and is limiting at unity even when playing normal music. Just wondering where I should turn down in order to set up my limiters properly. Hoping for some help in the right direction.

[Bruce Weldy]

You need to use the limiter in the Driverack, not the gain in the crossover section. Turn the board back up, put the gains back at zero and use the limiter to reduce gain until you get down to 50 volts.

[Bruce Weldy]

Also, getting 80 volts out of that amp doesn't seem right. At it's stated wattage numbers, it should be around 60-65.

If you have everything where it belongs and the limiter is taking it down to 50 volts .....and you are hitting the limiter, then the limiter is doing what it is supposed to and you need more cabs to get where you are going.

[ChrisMcCune]

Thx Bruce. yea it seems maybe I am using my multimeter incorrectly because I am getting 80+v when set to the ACV 200 setting.

What setting on the multimeter should I be using? Also I am going thru the speaker wire red and black connectors on the back and not the banana plug. Is that correct?

The only reason I was adjusting the gains in the crossover section and the trim knob on the back of the mixer was because when using the limiter I was limiting at 2db and it was engaging even at low volumes on the mixer and that didnt seem right. I thought the signal coming off the board was too hot. How much voltage does the studiolive put out?

Also around what db should I be aiming for on the limiter settings given my setup. Thx much. Im gonna get this figured out.

And btw the subs are extremely loud for my purposes but I was concerned that the limiter is constantly engaged so I just didnt want to run the system constantly clipping.

Cheers,
Chris

[ChrisMcCune]

And its possible I had the red and black connectors on my mulitmeter reversed. Im not sure, but would that give me a faulty reading?

[DJPhatman]

Your gain structure is off. If you search this forum, there is a pretty good tutorial on how to properly set gain structure.

[Bruce Weldy]

I use the mono output of the Presonus and keep the trim turned all the way up. I can drive my board to 0VU without engaging the limiters on the driverack.

You say you have a PA2, right?

Go back and set it up from scratch, but don't use the setup wizards. Do everything as a custom setting. Don't let it try to set your gains. I've read some stories about how they have tried to make everything so automatic, that it's hard to get control over it. That may be what's causing the problem.

[ChrisMcCune]

I have the PA+ actually. I saw the mono output, but thought it might be nice to do some panning and fx sweeps? Is that really necessary for live sound? Im not sure.

I will search around for the gain structure threads. Any more info will be helpful, especially the stuff on using the multimeter correctly.

[Grant Bunter]

I have the PA+ actually. I saw the mono output, but thought it might be nice to do some panning and fx sweeps? Is that really necessary for live sound? Im not sure.

Realistically, no.
Stereo panning effects/sweeps aren't particularly noticeable if you're not standing directly between the 2 mains (if you have one or more either side) and you are within a measly 13 feet of the cabs.
At least as you might want the FX/sweeps to be heard.
Spread the cabs wider, and it almost become irrelevant. You can hear something going on, but it doesn't add anything per se.

I know some people here set up stereo mains, but often that is situation dependant.
That's more about increasing gain before feedback than stereo sound.

Plenty of us only do live sound in mono...

[ChrisMcCune]

Thanks Grant. I will try the mono output and see if I can get my voltage limiting set up right.

[Bruce Weldy]

I have the PA+ actually. I saw the mono output, but thought it might be nice to do some panning and fx sweeps? Is that really necessary for live sound? Im not sure.

Realistically, no.
Stereo panning effects/sweeps aren't particularly noticeable if you're not standing directly between the 2 mains (if you have one or more either side) and you are within a measly 13 feet of the cabs.
At least as you might want the FX/sweeps to be heard.
Spread the cabs wider, and it almost become irrelevant. You can hear something going on, but it doesn't add anything per se.

I know some people here set up stereo mains, but often that is situation dependant.
That's more about increasing gain before feedback than stereo sound.

Plenty of us only do live sound in mono...

+1

All good advice......not bad for a guy that lives upside down!

[Grant Bunter]

[DJPhatman]

All good advice......not bad for a guy that lives upside down!

I just want to know how they get anything done.... hand-stands, maybe?!?!?!?

[Grant Bunter]

All good advice......not bad for a guy that lives upside down!

I just want to know how they get anything done.... hand-stands, maybe?!?!?!?

Sheesh DJP, I dunno!

Maybe that explains the expanding hairless patch on top of my head...

[Tom Smit]

.....but it happens just as well/much in the northern hemisphere, so.........