Just recieved my CD!!!

[bjm362]

And despite all of my skepticism from prior to ordering, and just after ordering I am pretty seriously both impressed and pleased with it thus far!
I may not be able to install Sketchup for a while though unless in the installation process there is an option to choose where you want it installed. I got the not enough free space on drive C warning. normally I don't install most programs to drive c, so this isn't usually an issue. I cleaned some of it up, but not enough yet!
Anyway, that part is my problem to deal with, not yours. The main thing I wanted to let you know is that after even an extremely brief look, I am extremely excited!!!

[Tom Smit]

Phew! (I was hoping that you'd wait with the concerns until after you received the CD so that you understand what the forum was trying to say ).

[bjm362]

Phew! (I was hoping that you'd wait with the concerns until after you received the CD so that you understand what the forum was trying to say ).

Is that essentially a way of saying "we are laughing with you not at you" or at least " we are laughing at where you are, but only until you catch up a bit, then we (including me) will all be laughing at where you were"!

[DJPhatman]

And despite all of my skepticism from prior to ordering, and just after ordering I am pretty seriously both impressed and pleased with it thus far!
I may not be able to install Sketchup for a while though unless in the installation process there is an option to choose where you want it installed. I got the not enough free space on drive C warning. normally I don't install most programs to drive c, so this isn't usually an issue. I cleaned some of it up, but not enough yet!
Anyway, that part is my problem to deal with, not yours. The main thing I wanted to let you know is that after even an extremely brief look, I am extremely excited!!!

Phew! (I was hoping that you'd wait with the concerns until after you received the CD so that you understand what the forum was trying to say ).

Is that essentially a way of saying "we are laughing with you not at you" or at least " we are laughing at where you are, but only until you catch up a bit, then we (including me) will all be laughing at where you were"!

It's saying "We just needed you to have faith in the designs." I'm not laughing at all. 8 years ago, I was exactly where you are now, but a lot more ignorant. As a forum, all we ask is for you to have an open mind, and weigh each opinion given for its experience and logic. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. You have to ultimately decide your path, we will advise you based on our experiences.

[Tom Smit]

Is that essentially a way of saying .......!

Yes. In time, you'll see.

[bjm362]

Thus far I am seeing a big advantage in having ordered the CD. I do have unusually vast experience in sound reinforcement, but there are gaps even in that. I have reworked existing cabs, and built BR cabs from scratch. I have used BB6 pro a bit too.
But this is another level! There is still info on the site itself I am also referring back too as well!
Buying the CD allows me to develop a workable plan before I spend another dollar! There is a great deal of useful info there. Since my dollars are few and far between at the moment that actually helps me a lot!
Two of the drivers I have may not work out, but the rest seem to be ideal fits depending on what I build!
My goal time frame is to be pretty well up and running by next spring, that does allow for some study time before I decide on anything. In this case I think the more I study the more favorable moves I can make!
I also have a friend that can essentially do whatever he wants with wood. Usually around December/ January his business is very slow. I already talked to him about possibly helping me do a couple of builds in that time in case I determine I really need some of the more complicated designs.
In the mean time here is to productive study!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: There is also a lot of ideal setup info here at the forum that coincides with my personal experience!To me, that increases the likeliness that what I am reading here is valid! Some theories that I have had Bill Fitzmaurice has already researched, developed and proven. That is a big plus in itself! That saves me years of potential headaches trying to apply a principle correctly! I have told people for years that piezo drivers could be smoothed out if properly coulpled and only used where they worked well. People said I was crazy. Bill has developed that to a very high level!
As valuable a resource as each of those are, I wouldn't want to even sightly discount the value of having a forum where builders/users can exchange experiences! That was the final kicker in my decision to order! Now it is up to me to make good use of that info!

[Tom Smit]

When it comes time to do the building, FOLLOW THE PLANS! Yes, I know that I was just yelling, but it was just to grab one's attention. Some experienced wood crafters think that their way is better; however, these plans are proven and when followed to a TEE produce expected results. I only say that because of there were some forum members who were disappointed or struggled with the builder of their cabs, and we want to be grinning from ear to ear when you fire them up.

[bjm362]

When it comes time to do the building, FOLLOW THE PLANS! Yes, I know that I was just yelling, but it was just to grab one's attention. Some experienced wood crafters think that their way is better; however, these plans are proven and when followed to a TEE produce expected results. I only say that because of there were some forum members who were disappointed or struggled with the builder of their cabs, and we want to be grinning from ear to ear when you fire them up.

Some of these I can build myself.Those I can make sure are in spec!
My preferred driver resource has drivers that are seriously ideal matches to Bills specs. I don't buy drivers from sources that don't include response curve graphs either. I certainly will check them thoroughly more than one way before building. I don't need drivers self destructing at any point!
My friend takes a great deal of personal pride in his work, it shouldn't be too hard to get him to stick to the plans and do it better than most builders! I will however have to cross that bridge when I get to it! Bill already optimizes weight savings in construction the same way that I would anyway. The plans ARE the way I want them constructed.
Anything I build not based on Bill's designs, I won't refer to as a BF design. Those risks/results are on me!
Anything I see needs a dramatic change to for my needs, that is a BF design, obviously I would want to ask about that here before proceeding.That is one of the advantages of this forum isn't it? It could be I am looking at the wrong cabinet in that case, and would be easily guided to the correct cab! Saving time and resources that way. Stupid questions are more easily corrected than stupid mistakes. I did pay for the plans, why not get the best use possible out of them!
Besides, I am probably going to build cabinets I will use for the last remainder of my life...why not get them as right as can from the start!........... Back to study time!

[Grant Bunter]

Glad you have your CD and things are looking better!

My preferred driver resource has drivers that are seriously ideal matches to Bills specs. I don't buy drivers from sources that don't include response curve graphs either

You are perhaps already suggesting that you won't use recommended drivers. Based on personal preference, past experience, and so on. That's kind of understandable, but please remember that the recommended drivers are in the designs because of those response curves and how they model (and thus translate when building) into design performance.

Recommended drivers here in Australia cost an arm and two legs.
So I spent ages poring through TS specs and graphs trying to find cheaper alternatives that might work. And, in those designs that require it, really, nothing much specs as well as Eminence with it's rising response to 2K ish.
That rising response is a quintessential part of the performance, as it offers better mids than commercial counterparts.

Given that recommended driver prices in the USA (if that's where you are) are so low compared to the rest of the world, logic sugggests they would be the way to go.

I also get that you may be inclined to want to alter passive crossover points.
Again, these are where they need to be in terms of response, leading to performance.

It could be I am looking at the wrong cabinet in that case, and would be easily guided to the correct cab!

This. Always keep it in mind lol.

Please remember Bill is not just a designer, he is also an SE, player (and a novelist).
Combined with his experience, and the hundred(s) + years of combined SE experience accrued by a number of the forum members, there's not much that hasn't already been covered...

edit: What I'm saying in short is, before you try to change anything, how about you build a couple of cabs exactly to spec and see how they perform...

[bjm362]

The recommended drivers includes specs in case you do not choose to use Eminence. I do have the experience to match drivers to the specs Bill included in the plans, as part of the plans for that purpose. You can rest assured I am not considering using ultra cheap crappy drivers in horns it is going to be a stretch for me to get built. Unfortunately the 15's I have aren't in the grouping of a good match.The 15s ( which are in the cabinets they came in) come up to short on Xmax. I will have to consider something different for them. I have some 4ohm and 8ohm 12s that are well within spec. one of the plans I have been looking says "This cabinet was designed to operate with twelve-inch pro-sound woofers.
Acceptable T/S specs are fs 35 to 60 Hz, Qts .30 to .50, Vas 50 to 150L, xmax no less
than 4mm. A rising midrange response is also required."

My drivers for those plans
Resonance Frequency Fs: 36.23 Hz
Total Q Factor Qts: 0.407
Equivalent Cas air load Vas: 121.67 liters
X-max 7 mm
It doesn't have power handling specs listed in the plans, but these are 350watts continuous/700watts peak.

I would say its a surprise how well they match, but when I bought them I made sure every driver was suitable for horn loading as I was planning on building my designs, even if they weren't fully developed plans at the time. In truth it really isn't a surprise that these are a match, or that the 4ohm 12s work well with the sub plans or even that the extra high ebp 12s (suitable for use in open back cabinets) which I got some years back with the idea of building a crossfire design 212 guitar cabinet are also a match fo XF cabs. A great deal of Bills designs are fully developed versions of ideas I already had been planning to attempt. It looks to me like these plans have saved me years of development, years I don't have to waste!
No they are not Eminence brand name, but they are also not just within spec, they are in the range that you would have to refer to as ideal!...and I already have them!


Now if I could just decide what to do with the Scorpion plus 15s!!!! Unfortunately they really aren't a good match to any of the plans I have looked at that closely thus far!

[Tom Smit]

No they are not Eminence brand name, but they are also not just within spec, they are in the range that you would have to refer to as ideal!...and I already have them!

Now if I could just decide what to do with the Scorpion plus 15s!!!! Unfortunately they really aren't a good match to any of the plans I have looked at that closely thus far!

Sell them to fund the cab building?


It looks like you have things covered fairly well.

[Grant Bunter]

A rising midrange response is also required

I should have quoted as well.

It is specifically the rising response in the midrange that is required (in tops) and with Eminence that rise is usally to about 2K.
Many other drivers may have a rising response in the mids, but not to 2K.

That's all I'm trying to say.
If you find other drivers that are cheaper and match all the characteristics of the recommended drivers, please, let us all know

Case in hand:
In the DR250 the Beta 10a is a recommended driver and has rsiing response to 2K. A better driver is the Deltalite 2510. Using it gives a whopping 5dB increase in mids output over the Beta 10a.

It took a long time for me to find this out, via the forum...

[bjm362]

Grant, I appreciate your attention to detail! It is to bad you don't live in my city. I think we would both enjoy talking about all this over a cup of coffee!
A rise above 2k is only necessary if you go with the piezo array option. Using the compression horn option it is not needed.
I still haven't settled on one plan yet anyway. This intent of a discussion should be saved for after I decide for sure which plan to build first.
The LF drivers I have though are a match for all the plans I have looked at thus far. At least in the optional configuration I would use anyway!
There are things I like and things I don't like about the plans thus far, but even that may be subject to change after further study. Thus far my opinion of them is to be determined after further study! I do think that as the welcome page says even the more complicated designs probably really are doable by a woodworking novice if you go step by step.
I will include another "the only thing for sure"! This one is the only thing for sure is that, the closer I study them before making a decision the better my chances to make the right choice. That makes this a really good time to not get over excited either way, positively or negatively. Keep as open a mind as I can on initial view, don't make any snap decisions until I have made a pretty thorough evaluation!
I do have some design ideas of my own, some may or may not work with these, those are all decisions for AFTER some pretty thorough study.
If I decide I absolutely have to build something right away I can build a lighter version of the SP5ti's with the parts in them and Bass Box Pro. But I think I should wait on even that.
LOL!