Killing room nodes with wall treatment??

[Ian Westwood]

I have a side project for a friend who produces music in the spare room of his house.

The room is 17.5 feet x 17 feet by 8.5 feet tall, has 2 windows and a closet, hard walls and a wooden floor.

I'm going to be hooking him up with a sub, originally a THTLP, but after some testing I found the room suffers terribly from room nodes as you might expect.

His listening / working position is pretty much the middle of the room, which is where the worst of the nodes seem to be. Particularly at about 40 Hz or so. You get can get anything between 6 and 9 dB dips in SPL where he listens!

So my question is this: Can we treat the room to kill the nodes. Not to anechoic chamber standards, obviously. But I'd like to hear a consensus on what people think would be possible just by hanging various materials on the walls, maybe ceilings and perhaps covering the floor with a thick rug or something.

This is a budget conscious job so we are not looking for exotic materials used in the professional world... more looking for solutions involving cheap materials found in regular stores.

Looking forward to hearing your comments & thoughts. What success we might have killing the nodes. Links to relevant threads would be appreciated!

[88h88]

I was under the impression that nodes could only be treated with speaker positioning/multiple subs.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Yes, room modes can be greatly helped with acoustical treatment. It does take a LOT of panels in even a small room. This is Ethan Winer's company...

http://www.realtraps.com/howto.htm

[Ian Westwood]

I was under the impression that nodes could only be treated with speaker positioning/multiple subs.

Hmmm perhaps... but if this were true then anechoic chambers wouldn't work? Maybe.

Yes, room modes can be greatly helped with acoustical treatment. It does take a LOT of panels in even a small room. This is Ethan Winer's company...

http://www.realtraps.com/howto.htm

Thanks. Interesting site.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Hmmm perhaps... but if this were true then anechoic chambers wouldn't work? Maybe.

Look at how thick the wall wedges are in those chambers, often as much as two feet. Bass Traps are actually mis-named, as they work in the mid-bass, being too thin do do much in the frequencies below 100Hz. My advice: two subs, and move the workstation.

[Ian Westwood]

My advice: two subs, and move the workstation.

Thanks Bill, so don't bother with wall coverings?

[Bas Gooiker]

My advice: two subs, and move the workstation.

Thanks Bill, so don't bother with wall coverings?

Anything that isn't just a big flat concrete/drywall etc surface is going to be an improvement.

[doncolga]

I've been down the treatment path before and from my experience placement is much more important and it doesn't cost anything, so I'd do treatment last. I've done my best mixes in rooms (actually a kitchen...seriously) with no treatment and used no subwoofer. My monitors go to 55 hz and were placed close against the walls. I used those and headphones pretty much equally, both for judging levels, EQ and panning. The headphones seemed to help me make better mix decisions for bass and sub bass as room modes were not a factor. Much better than a room with incorrect subwoofer and mix position placement. Interestingly, years ago when I was a teen (early 90's), I wrote my own tunes and sequenced all my music and recorded that and vocals straight to cassette tapes. Did it all on small monitors and headphones and it was actually pretty good. From an EQ and levels perspective, it was very good.

The Genelec document below was helpful but I came across it later and it seemed to confirm what I'd done out of practicality. From what I can tell, goes along with the information on the placement rules you can find here. My monitors worked best right up next to the wall and modes seemed to be minimal. Helped me a ton.

http://www.genelec.com/documents/catalo ... e_2011.pdf

[racertomtom]

The headphones seemed to help me make better mix decisions for bass and sub bass as room modes were not a factor. Much better than a room with incorrect subwoofer and mix position placement.

+1

[Ian Westwood]

A belated thanks to all!