Don't let this happen to you

[DJPhatman]

You got me there DJ, before I edited. ...I can hardly blame the return key - the problem began somewhere else.

I would change my final sentence to 'The right to bear arms = a small amount of empowered nutters'.

...Now, where's the shoot 'em up smilie?

Right here, and no worries! The point I want to make to all the non-Americans, who might have the idea that every American male has a hand cannon, and we are all just itchin' to use 'em, is the furthest thing from the actual truth. Look at the statistics kept by the FBI. How many legal, licensed gun carriers have gone nuts and on a wild shooting spree? I am just defending my right of the 2nd amendment of the Constitution of the United States, from over 200 years ago, to bear arms, and to fight those who wish to deprive me of that right.

[Charles Jenkinson]

Right here, and no worries!

No! Thank you! You have 'made my day'.

[AntonZ]

It is a cultural thing I think. I see where you come from and live in a society with more violence as well as a strong historic background of living remotely and being able to defend your family and property against hostile strangers as well as wild animals. Over here there are few lunatics with fire arms and no such animals. I know not one single person here with guns and I'm glad it is very rare over here. We have had one incident with a guy going bananas and shooting people in a mall, last year. The guy was member of a shooting club and had a license for the weapons that he owned. Never happened before on such a scale so it was big news. Unlikely to happen again, although one cannot ban such things entirely.

There may be something to be said for both sides of this old argument. If you have been seriously threatened and only survived because you were able to shoot back, I can understand how you feel. Yet, that is a situation very different from how I live. We probably have just as many nutters as any other country, but very few of those have access to fire arms. Personally, I will never own a gun and am glad about that.

[ketoet]

The first thing we learned in weapons training at work was : it's the weapons that are dangerous but the people that handle them and how they handle them.
I'm personnally always nervous when we go too the firering range. The first time we went somebody shot himself in his own foot with a weapon he thaught was unloaded.
I have a lot of colleages i fully trust with firearms and some other
I don't trust with a toothpick. It's al about the mentallity of the person with the gun i think

[ketoet]

Damn, i meant: it's not the weapons that are dangerous but the people that handle them.

[Charles Jenkinson]

The first time we went somebody shot himself in his own foot with a weapon he thaught was unloaded.

For those moments when you are not sure...

[ketoet]

[subharmonic]

2nd amendment is as much about government checks and balances as it is about: personal protection from bad guys (non government ones in this sense), animals, sport, or food. If only your government is armed and decides it knows what is best for you, if democracy fails, then what? Pitch forks and torches? I am not saying US is anywhere near anything like that, but historically there is a lot of merit to be wary of any governments "good intentions".

Also lets not forget zombie and alien attacks.

[gene]

Gene, interesting to know.
What took you/your family to the US?

Well my Australian grandmother met and married my Greek granddad during ww2. My mom came over to the U.S. as a teenager and stayed with the extended family in Gary, IN attended college at IU and became a US citizen. Anyway we have stayed really close to our family over there and some of our other family are even darn Kiwis. You'd appreciate how much we tease them about sheep. I need to get back out and visit in the next year or so.

I personally think everyone should be armed with one, and just one, rocket launcher.

Just the one rocket? I played enough Quake3 over the internet in my youth to know that if you can't get a direct hit, the splash damage is still gonna ruin someone's day.

ROCKET WARS!

I'll spot you the rocket launcher if I can get a railgun. I dominated with that baby in quake and in the Unreal Tournament series. "MMMMMonster Kill... Gene is Godlike!"

DJPhantom, you are the first CCW holder I know that has actually drawn and killed someone with their weapon. It's pretty rare honestly. The culture in this country is much different than European countries. I think the biggest difference is how homogenous most Euro countries are. They don't really have all the different ethnicities/cultures/etc living in close proxomity that can lead to higher crime rates like we have in the US. Would help explain why murders are more rare in countries like sweden, etc.

As to going to public firing ranges, I don't like them. I have gone multiple times to the Knob Creek gun range (does an annual machine gun shoot that is pretty bad@ss) and there are just too many people there. It doesn't help when you look up at the tin roof and see holes all over it. I just notice too many people being cavalier with their handguns and not watching where they point them (even with a range officer that acts like a boot camp soldier). I do go to a gun range out near mammoth cave national park that is over 1600 yards in length for really long distance rifle shooting but that is so specialized everyone that goes there is a pro basically. Also went to a few of the really big ranges in Arizona while I lived out there. Any of the shorter ranges were populated partially by idiots, but the long distance rifle stuff was great.

My family are members of a private gun club and usually no matter which of the ranges I use, I'm the only person/group there. Unless it is a special event, meetup or clay night or something. I'm even helping them design and build a reactive steel target handgun range. It's based a lot on the one at Bud's gun shop. Pretty awesome to shoot on, but you go through ammo so darn fast.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I am just defending my right of the 2nd amendment of the Constitution of the United States, from over 200 years ago, to bear arms, and to fight those who wish to deprive me of that right.

Have you ever read the 2nd Amendment? The vast majority of its most staunch supporters have not.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

A true strict constructionist would take this to mean that if you want to own a gun you must be a member of the National Guard, especially when taken in context with the fact that when written in 1791 there was no standing army of consequence and the defense of the nation fell primarily to the State militias, and gun ownership was a necessity, because militia members provided their own weapons.

So while I have no issue with gun ownership...I have three... if you're going to adhere to the 2nd Amendment per its original intent owing a gun means you're ready, willing and able to be called up to active duty.

We probably have just as many nutters as any other country, but very few of those have access to fire arms. Personally, I will never own a gun and am glad about that.

Yes, what an odd country you have where guns are illegal, while prostitution and drugs are not. Your murder rate is 1/4 that of the US, and prison population per capita 1/7 that of the US, and I don't think that's because the population is too busy screwing or too stoned to find the time to rob and kill each other.

[biggerrigger]

I have gone multiple times to the Knob Creek gun range (does an annual machine gun shoot that is pretty bad@ss)

The night shoot is one of the single most amazing things that I have ever seen in person. That mini gun going full speed at night with red and green tracer rounds for over 5 minutes straight is a sight to be seen and felt. I would like to know how many 1,000's of rounds are fired off in that night event.

[ketoet]

Firering a minimi or MAG is fun especially at night with the tracerrounds. Cleaning the weapons afterwards not so

[AntonZ]

We probably have just as many nutters as any other country, but very few of those have access to fire arms. Personally, I will never own a gun and am glad about that.

Yes, what an odd country you have where guns are illegal, while prostitution and drugs are not. Your murder rate is 1/4 that of the US, and prison population per capita 1/7 that of the US, and I don't think that's because the population is too busy screwing or too stoned to find the time to rob and kill each other.

Odd indeed, but some elaboration needed. Not all drugs are legal, far from. Most of the substances that are illegal over there are illegal here as well. And the few things that are "legal" here only are to a certain extent. No problem owning a tiny bit of cannabis for own use, but dealing in or being in possession of large quantities is prohibited and will be prosecuted. Using before or while driving may also get you in big trouble. And we are practical where money is concerned. Lots of money is earned in prostitution, and the prostitutes pay taxes, just like anybody else. Huge profit for our "IRS" if you will. And prostitution is of all times, you can not make it go away by making it illegal. That only makes the circumstances under which these women have to work much much harder. Not saying they're in it for fun over here, but their position would most probably be worse if their profession was made illegal.

As for different ethnicities/cultures/etc living in close proximity, we have plenty of that here as well. Many immigrants came from south of Europe and north africa, the mediteranean area if you will. Not so many coming from there nowadays, but now we have people from eastern Europe coming to work here. Some are just good craftsmen and work hard to support their families back home, doing jobs that most of our native population frown upon. Others are hard criminals, doing nasty things. You win some, you loose some. That's life, I guess.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Not all drugs are legal, far from. Most of the substances that are illegal over there are illegal here as well. And the few things that are "legal" here only are to a certain extent. No problem owning a tiny bit of cannabis for own use, but dealing in or being in possession of large quantities is prohibited and will be prosecuted. Lots of money is earned in prostitution, and the prostitutes pay taxes, just like anybody else. Huge profit for our "IRS" if you will.

You're missing the boat. If you legalize weed and hash and sell it with no more restriction than tobacco you can tax it and make a profit, rather than spend tax monies enforcing virtually unenforceable laws, and paying for the room and board for those who do get convicted. If we did so the deficit would be gone in no time, and we would have enough tax surplus to fund entitlement programs that would make yours look stingy by comparison. Just like prostitution people are going to do what they're going to do. You'd think our ill fated experiment with Prohibition would have been an adequate wake-up call; at least some of our States are now beginning to see the light. I'm not so certain what we should do vis-a-vis harder drugs, but for sure what we're doing now doesn't work.

[Bruce Weldy]

If we did so the deficit would be gone in no time, and we would have enough tax surplus to fund entitlement programs that would make yours look stingy by comparison.

Sorry, gotta call

Not going to get into the validity of the argument, only the math.

Current annual deficit - $1,089,000,000,000 (1.089 Trillion)
Current population over the age of 18 - 240,237,363 (72.3% of total pop.)

If everyone over the age of 18 (and I mean everyone) smoked a joint a day, everyday for an entire year that would be 87,686,637,432 joints per year.

Divide the number of joints into the annual deficit gives you the amount of tax on each joint in order to just wipe out the deficit......

$12.42 per joint.

Obviously, that much tax would create the same black market that we currently have. Not to mention that 100% of the entire population over 18 would not smoke pot....maybe 20%? And those would not average a joint per day (although I'm sure the music industry would do their best to up the average ).

While your option would certainly create some revenue - there's just no way to wipe out the enormous mountain of borrowed money that grows exponentially on a daily basis.

And let's not even talk about how stoned the country would have to be to wipe out the debt.