What Should I Buy?

[doncolga]

Taxes are now done...woohoo! I just asked if I should sell a guitar, now here's a question about buying. As the year is winding down, I'm considering some business purchases. Here's what I'm looking at:

1. Another year of DJ insurance (I know I haven't been that busy, but I would have lost my biggest gig this past year had I not had it, so I'd rather have it than not.)
2. A stage snake. What would you all recommend as something basic, good quality and inexpensive...a good value for the money. I'd like to be able to do sound for a small band or maybe sound for a local festival.

Thanks!

Donny

[gzc_stageTech]

A snake is an investment. Don't buy a "cheap one" just because it's inexpensive. It might really be cheap. When I bought one, I bought a ProCo. There are less expensive snakes. But you don't want one that's noisy, or the ends fail. In fact, the quality of the snake is revealed in the fan.

"buy once, cry once". Let's see, where have I heard that before.

I think you'd want at least a 16-4 x 100' , or maybe 150'. Mine is a 24-4 x 150', and I wish I had more sends (I have a PreSonus 24.4.2). So, I could easily add 6 or 8 more sends.

Remember, it's an investment. Look for quality first, price second.

Chris

[Gauss]

Get some lights.

I'm in a great spot because I have friends that I can borrow from. One guy has a great live PA, with huge mixer, powered monitors and a snake, another guy has video cameras, mics and small mixers. I haven't bought a wireless mic yet because I can still borrow his -- he lets me keep it in my stuff because I use it more than he does. I'm the guy with the easy, high-quality sound system and cool lights. (Yes, we're pretty small-time in the grand scheme.) I lend out my lights to these guys a lot. These are the guys who bring in business for me and send me referrals. I will assist them with running sound for conferences and dances, and get a lot out of our association.

Most likely you've met people like you and can pursue some special equipment that can increase your involvement? Maybe that's why you're going for a snake, because your connections are the musicians needing a sound guy. For me, having two Chauvet ColorStrips and a DMX controller has been a huge bonus. The other lights are nice too, scanners and dance floor movement, but people always want to use the colorstrips. I'm even renting them out for a small exhibition booth this month. I recommend using your cash to get nice lights (i.e. get some ColorStrips and a DMX controller.) I have a bank set with 8 patterns for fast music (it responds to the beat) and a bank for slow music. I just push a button to change the lighting pattern for each song.

Here they are in use at a dance, and at my band's gig.

[SeisTres]

Taxes are now done...woohoo! I just asked if I should sell a guitar, now here's a question about buying. As the year is winding down, I'm considering some business purchases. Here's what I'm looking at:

1. Another year of DJ insurance (I know I haven't been that busy, but I would have lost my biggest gig this past year had I not had it, so I'd rather have it than not.)
2. A stage snake. What would you all recommend as something basic, good quality and inexpensive...a good value for the money. I'd like to be able to do sound for a small band or maybe sound for a local festival.

Thanks!

Donny

Just a heads up before you start buying the gear. In order to be able to do live sound even for smaller bands, the cost of you investment in gear will end up doubling. I'm not saying this to discourage you (saying this as someone who prefers this than to dj'ing), but just giving you advice on what to expect.

Here is a list of the essentials which will run you about the cost of your whole PA system. A decent mixer with around 24channels, a snake, around 5mics along with a 7mic drumset kit, the stands for all the mics, mic cables to run everything to the mixer, and some processing gear (a reverb is nice, but multiple compressors are a must).

[byacey]

Beyond a typical DJ setup, you'll also need monitor wedges, power amps to drive them, EQs for the monitors, associated cabling, DI boxes, extra 1/4 inch shielded cables for the dummies that show up to play without a patch cord, AC stage power drops, AC cabling as long as your snake to power the FOH mix location, a table or rack lids to put the mixing console on,
possibly a power distro (depending on how big you want to go), trunks to haul all this stuff, etc.

Oh, and lest we forget the recruited labor to move and set up all this gear.

[SeisTres]

Beyond a typical DJ setup, you'll also need monitor wedges, power amps to drive them, EQs for the monitors, associated cabling, DI boxes, extra 1/4 inch shielded cables for the dummies that show up to play without a patch cord, AC stage power drops, AC cabling as long as your snake to power the FOH mix location, a table or rack lids to put the mixing console on,
possibly a power distro (depending on how big you want to go), trunks to haul all this stuff, etc.

Oh, and lest we forget the recruited labor to move and set up all this gear.

knew i was forgetting something

[Rick Lee]

Donny, I'm sure you know the equipment required...
IF you are looking for the cheapest, I used an MCM snake for a local church install where they'll rarely be plugging/unplugging anything. The price is way cheaper than anything else out there. For instance this 16 channel/4 returns is only $152. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/555-13901 Since they're using about 10 channels they have a few backup channels if some of them give up the ghost.

Could almost buy another for a backup and still be cheaper than a better quality one.

[Grant Bunter]

I reckon you need more returns than 4.

I got a 20 send 8 return snake for my 16 channel desk.
I figure if I upgrade my desk later, I can buy a 8 send channel snake same length as what I have now, then change the plugs over and have 28 send snake and a 8 return snake.

2 subs returns, 2 tops returns and 3 monitor returns almost runs me out already...

[Bruce Weldy]

I reckon you need more returns than 4.

I got a 20 send 8 return snake for my 16 channel desk.
I figure if I upgrade my desk later, I can buy a 8 send channel snake same length as what I have now, then change the plugs over and have 28 send snake and a 8 return snake.

2 subs returns, 2 tops returns and 3 monitor returns almost runs me out already...

Questions....

Why 2 sub returns?

Why isn't your speaker processor at the stage with the amps? That way you only need to run either one return if mono or two if stereo? Then the tops and subs are split at the stage.

[Grant Bunter]

Questions....

Why 2 sub returns?

Why isn't your speaker processor at the stage with the amps? That way you only need to run either one return if mono or two if stereo? Then the tops and subs are split at the stage.

Err, cause I can, I don't know better yet and it seemed like a good idea at the time.
And no one can fidget with it.
I'm not convinced channel link on my sub amp is working correctly.

To be honest, it never occurred to me.

But thanks Bruce, that's certainly something to think about down the track. When I have time to sort everything out properly.

Even then though, 2 mains returns and 4 monitor mixes (for our band) takes me to 6...

[Bruce Weldy]

Questions....

Why 2 sub returns?

Why isn't your speaker processor at the stage with the amps? That way you only need to run either one return if mono or two if stereo? Then the tops and subs are split at the stage.

Err, cause I can, I don't know better yet and it seemed like a good idea at the time.
And no one can fidget with it.
I'm not convinced channel link on my sub amp is working correctly.

To be honest, it never occurred to me.

But thanks Bruce, that's certainly something to think about down the track. When I have time to sort everything out properly.

Even then though, 2 mains returns and 4 monitor mixes (for our band) takes me to 6...

Of course, you could run mono. Are you actually panning anything stereo in a live situation?

But, what you describe is why I bought a 16-8 snake. Once, I had to use gender changers to get 18 sends out of it. Having 8 returns does make it more versatile.

As far as the Behringer or DriveRack (you are using a 2496, right?), I would position it in the amp rack - have it all pre-wired to a rack panel to make setup easier and quicker. Plus, it's less stuff to tote to FOH.

[Grant Bunter]

Apologies Donny,

PM sent Bruce.

[doncolga]

Apologies Donny,

PM sent Bruce.

Oh not a problem man. I'm learning from all this. For myself, I could go with a 4 or 8 return. Reading all this I understand my options for how I'd set up my racks. If I put my crossover at the amps, then a 4 would be fine...8 would certainly be handy though. That'd leave just the mixer and EQ's out front for my rig. I'll be thinking on it.

[Rick Lee]

Heck Donny, just go for it. One of these to get you started http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S16 and then just bite the bullet and go ahead and get this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/X32 It's gonna take over the world so you might as well get a jump on it...

[88h88]

So could someone explain in idiot newbie terms what the S16 does? My brain says: "you don't need a snake with this, just a loooooooong cat5/6".

Would you require one at FoH and one at the stage linked by said cat5/6?

I am an idiot, hardest setup I personally have done with my BFM is a piddly Yamaha 10/2 with a couple of mics and a DJ mixer. Help me do learnin'!