How the He11 do U deal with sound "experts" in the booth?

[LouC]

Wayne and I have our church system dialed in now. Wayne mixed a soloist with an MP3 instrumental last week that sounded like it came right out of the recording studio. Get compliments from the older folks who can actually hear the service & the band. Like every venue there are some minor issues -- and politics. ("I'm not loud enough"...)

Some a$$hole came up to the booth after the service and started ranting about how we didn't know what the f*ck we were doing, the speakers sucked, the mix was wrong, ...
Well say what you want about me, but don't slam my dogs or my work!
I tried to be nice, asked him what he thought was wrong exactly. Got the usual "it just doesn't sound right". So I blitzed him with "room cancellation modes", "boundary reflections", "phase coherence", "bandwidth equalization" and any other term I could work into my tirade. He slinked away.

Turns out he's some rich hotel owner whose sole experience is setting up business conferences in banquet rooms -- but he gives a lot of money to the church.

I know Bill the Curmudgeon has dealt with these kinda self appointed experts. How the hell do the rest of you "pros" deal with these kinds of idiots. Bear in mind I'm 61 with cancer, so physical brutality is probably off the table. No bouncers at church either...

[Gregory East]

Ask him to go get his hearing tested? I think the only complaint I have had was the lows being too loud, outdoors with electric piano. They were right, so I turned them down. Nice problem to have.

[Bruce Weldy]

Actually, your best reply might be what you said in the last paragraph...

I'm 61 and have cancer. Do you really think I give a crap about your opinion?


with a smile, of course....

[Tom Smit]

Wayne and I have our church system dialed in now. Wayne mixed a soloist with an MP3 instrumental last week that sounded like it came right out of the recording studio. Get compliments from the older folks who can actually hear the service & the band.

...and....

Some a$$hole came up to the booth after the service and started ranting about how we didn't know what the f*ck we were doing, the speakers sucked, the mix was wrong, ...

tells me to listen to the majority.

In your link, you said you would like the OT12s lower. Are able to make an extention on a French cleat, and screw it into the back of the cab? Put a vase with flowers on top of the cab, and the extention will look like it belongs.

[Bas Gooiker]

How the hell do the rest of you "pros" deal with these kinds of idiots.

Just tell them friendly how you value his input and opinion... when they ask you if you are going to change it for them... just say NO!

[wounded horse]

So much for brotherly tolerance.

[Grant Bunter]

I don't know if I would consider this "pro" advice...

For whatever reason this person has got under your skin.

I've been through the entire gamut when trying to offer (sound) advice, from "what the eff would you know" to (more than once) "this is the first time I've ever done this and thank you so much".
In the second case the audience have also thanked me.

Regardless of your personal circumstances, it's simple to say, but don't let others get under your skin. Do what you do with conviction, enjoy it, and take solace from those that offer you compliments. You simply cannot please everybody all the time...

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I know Bill the Curmudgeon has dealt with these kinda self appointed experts. How the hell do the rest of you "pros" deal with these kinds of idiots.

I do the same thing in person as I do on forums. When someone wants to learn something I offer them the benefit of my experience. When all they want to do is engage in self-puffery I ignore them.

[LouC]

Yeah, this guy really got under my skin. I don't usually give a rat's ass about these kind of people, tried to be nice to him -- once. More a board rant on my part than anything else. Most of our congregation is appreciative of (& oblivious to) the sound system -- till it fails. After 20 years in IT, I should be used to it. Wayne has gotten pretty good at killing coughs, minimizing feedback, and generally making the system disappear. I still don't feel comfortable as back-up mix master, lot more work than I realized. I doesn't multi-task so good no mo'

I don't think we can safely move the OTOPS down, nothing to hang them on. At 50 lbs, I think we'll have to work around the mechanical support issues. We got them past the building inspector and fire marshal, I think we'll leave well enough alone.

I'll hand it to Bill for his designs, all in all this is one of the cleanest, most effortless PA systems I've heard. We might add a couple fillers in some of the dead spots down the road. But for our venue, I don't think we could do much better without 10X the budget we had.

Most of the real issues are amateur vocalists, people who show up 3 minutes before the service and wonder why they don't fit the mix... Throw a well mastered commercial recording at the system and you can appreciate the capability.

I've been designing home audio for 15 years. Brutally accurate speakers make people realize how bad their MP3's are mastered. That's why Blows stays in business!

[mattaudio]

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you."
Remember to separate this guy from his afflictions... if he has bitterness or jealousy and comes after your work at the church due to it, it's eating him up much more than it is affecting you. I know it's not easy to do, but just forgive and let it roll off of you.

[byacey]

If I have the time, I simply ask them what they would do to improve the sound. In most cases, they realize they're in uncharted waters and wander off. The remaining few will try and spout some BS that only confirms they have no clue what they are talking about.

Sometimes it's even amusing to watch the "expert" become uncomfortable when they are unable to present a solution to their perceived problem.

[dheafey]

Some a$$hole came up to the booth after the service and started ranting about how we didn't know what the f*ck we were doing, the speakers sucked, the mix was wrong, ...

It's tough when you volunteer your time and get this kind of reaction. This is a gift of the heart, mind and soul and criticism can be hard to take, especially unwarranted criticism. I also know, through reading your build thread, that there was significant emotional involvement in this project. That makes it doubly tough to deal with people like this.

I've seen cases where a reaction like the above stems from some personal involvement. Maybe your "friend" offered his services and was turned down; envy is a powerful emotion. Maybe his granddaughter was in the chorus and he thought she should've been more prominent in the mix. I had a similar situation where a high level school teacher couldn't hear her son prominently in the mix during a drama production. I asked her how she would reduce the feedback in the concrete auditorium and where the bass traps should be placed. The conversation ended rather quickly.

My personal "tactic" is to get them involved by asking for advice, something I usually term "Asking clarifying questions." Were the vocals too hot in the mix? Should I bump 250-1,000 up a few db? Within a minute or so, you can probably assess their skill level and they may just realize how much you know and how much they don't know. In the end, it's all a learning experience to me - the good and the bad. I try very hard not to take it personally even if people forget I'm doing this out of a need/desire to help others rather than for profit.

If we allow people to make us react in a certain way, then whose fault is it? Life's too short for negativity. But then, I'm preaching to the choir.

[Bruce Weldy]

Some a$$hole came up to the booth after the service and started ranting about how we didn't know what the f*ck we were doing, the speakers sucked, the mix was wrong, ...

It's tough when you volunteer your time and get this kind of reaction. This is a gift of the heart, mind and soul and criticism can be hard to take, especially unwarranted criticism. I also know, through reading your build thread, that there was significant emotional involvement in this project. That makes it doubly tough to deal with people like this.

I've seen cases where a reaction like the above stems from some personal involvement. Maybe your "friend" offered his services and was turned down; envy is a powerful emotion. Maybe his granddaughter was in the chorus and he thought she should've been more prominent in the mix. I had a similar situation where a high level school teacher couldn't hear her son prominently in the mix during a drama production. I asked her how she would reduce the feedback in the concrete auditorium and where the bass traps should be placed. The conversation ended rather quickly.

My personal "tactic" is to get them involved by asking for advice, something I usually term "Asking clarifying questions." Were the vocals too hot in the mix? Should I bump 250-1,000 up a few db? Within a minute or so, you can probably assess their skill level and they may just realize how much you know and how much they don't know. In the end, it's all a learning experience to me - the good and the bad. I try very hard not to take it personally even if people forget I'm doing this out of a need/desire to help others rather than for profit.

If we allow people to make us react in a certain way, then whose fault is it? Life's too short for negativity. But then, I'm preaching to the choir.

While that's all good advice.....for someone who asks nicely, a jackass doesn't deserve it - even in church.

I was pretty fortunate during my two-year stint working for a church. The sound was so bad when I got there that I was held in pretty high esteem. But, I also had the 70 yr old woman telling me how I should mic the choir because she saw it like that on TV once. Then there's the people that come to the service with the Praise Band one time just so they can tell you it's too loud.....of course, everyone else is there because it's rockin'.

Some people just want to impose their will on others. Most of the time, I gave 'em a smile and did what I wanted - other times (when the jackasses arrived braying), I would just say no.

The best vindication of course is when, months later, people in the congregation tell you how badly the sound has gotten since you left. While I would never bask in the glow of their misfortune......I might emit a small smirk...

[Greg Plouvier]

You might want to find out where he's sitting and have a listen. That's how a pro would handle it - particularly in a church where compassion should be foremost. Someone will always complain...making them feel listened to will usually defuse the situation.

[byacey]

When someone comes up to me and starts out "ranting about how we didn't know what the f*ck we were doing, the speakers sucked, the mix was wrong, ... "
I find it difficult to display any sort of compassion; even in a church.