T39/T60/THT/TTLP/Otop/Wbin/Yorkville ls1208

[subharmonic]

User/Builder JonBarnhardt and I did a listening party last Sunday. Some of the results were unexpected, some were expected and some were just what they were.

Basically I set out with the best intentions of taking measurements and videos of everything but unfortunately that did not happen do to time constraints, lack of understanding REW/my equipment and technical issues. So you will have to take my word for it.

Our biggest issue was the room itself. We were limited to 2 spots for wall loading, on was in front of the overhead garage door and the other was between some big couches and a deep freeze?. No corners or just no mans land about 8/12/10/40/14 feet from nearest boundaries was the last option. Basically this was the 1st and only time I have heard any BFD subs not tear up the room, they were spotty throughout the room, not as visceral and frankly kinda quiet. I hate to say that but I trying to be honest about what I experienced. To understand this a little better here is an example: the T60 loaded against the solid wall was measuring 120 db at the mouth, less then 5 feet away it dropped into the 100 range. Again I have NEVER in home or at a gig had such a finicky room for horns.

T39s:
We had 2 versions available. 20" BP102 loaded and 24" Lab12 loaded. As always these were very very clean sounding. Vplating and stacking them lead to a greater output, we even managed to knock some wood off a ledge in this configuration. My biggest surprise was the lack of difference between the Lab12 and BP102, in output and SQ. The SQ was generally expected but I thought the lab 12 and wider cab would be louder than it actually was. I have warned many people of the buy once cry once motto on this site. I may change my mind a little on that, yes you may always wonder how much better would the output be with premium drivers/width but to me ATM it appears negligible. Again the room may have skewed this too, I will have to hear them back to back at another time.

T60:
I love this sub, it is big, but that just means there is more to love. Many user argue that you don't need it since most content doesn't drop below 40hz. That may be true, and what does drop down there may be mainly fundamentals. The seller for me is, even though I am mainly a wedding DJ, I want the best sounding system possible. The T60 sounds better than the T39s. Simple as that. It hits with more...beef...authority....Rosie O'Donnell...whatever you want to call it. T39s just don't seem to have the SQ or hits that the Tubas have. It was even able to make a bungee hanging on the wall sway with the music. Did I mention I love this sub.

THT:
So keeping in mind that this listened to after hours of T39/T60/Yorky/Wbin madness, I thought this thing kept up very well in the size of room it was in. When Jon asked me what this HP was for this one he had to confirm that I said none, I think his BBE DS26 bottomed out at 11hz. Since we were listening to music we weren't going low anyway. I would say that the SQ was better than the rest of the pack yet still had the ...beef...authority....Rosie O'Donnell....whatever you want to call it. Just not enough gusto to gig with unless in interior residential setting. Since this was my original THT I can tell you in a residential room this thing cures cancer, then beats up Chuck Norris. Best HT sub I have ever heard, most musical sub I had heard until......

TTLP:
This little guy (funny a 15"x15"x60" box is little) was a joy for me to listen to. It didn't have the ...beef...authority....Rosie O'Donnell...whatever you want to call it, of the THT but I think Jon put it best as there was more of an airy sound to it. If I ever have just a listening room I am putting a couple of these in it unless I have Davids of course. For music this is simply the way to go, I am sure it was loud enough for any sane persons version of loud music, it hit low and hard but not harsh in any way. Did I mention it was MCM loaded too? Really this is not a sub to be dismissed by a prospects of a THT. If your looking for music mainly this is the sub to go with, movies mainly stick to a THT if your War Office allows. Can't imagine what that TTLPXLT sounded like.

Otop:
This was a non diffused non phase plug variety of Otop. My 1st experience with a BFD top. What an experience it was. These things are loud, clear and small compared to my DR250s. My mouth is watering to finish my DRs after hearing these. Compared to some EV elx115s Jon had laying around it is like a slim jim vs deer sausage made by that uncle you have that wears his good flannel to funerals, no comparison. The only issue I had was they were a little harsh on the highs but I think a little EQ could go a long way with these, and it was loud when the harshness came in.

Wbin:
Eminence 18 loaded generic W bins. These things look like they had been through the ringer a couple times. I really thought I wouldn't like these but they were not bad at all. Seemed to have a decent output and clean sound. Not BFD clean but good solid clean bass none the less. I am not sure what their power consumption was nor HP.

Yokville ls1208:
First off I am going to say that there are some unfair advantages that happened. There were 4 of these monsters and 1500 watts per cab. The also had a theoretical disatvangtage being in the no mans land I mentioned earlier, but they seemed to have lost that memo. The two advantages these had of the other subs was sheer SPL and seemed very forgiving of placement. But IMO that is where it ended. They are lot like a good casino, loud and loose. The bass was sloppy not very visceral. They just don't hit like a horn even when the horns were being uncooperative.

At this event was a associate of Jons, I will call him Mr. Orange (MO for short). MO works at a pro shop and was saying that the db was a better trade off than clean sound (keep in mind this was his 1st experience with BFD speakers), he claimed that a 12db dip in the 80hz range would clean the Yorkys up. I am going to disagree with that, yes if there isn't enough db there isn't enough db, however you can't EQ in the difference between a horn and a whatever you want to call the Yorkys design. And horns seem to carry better so less db may be a little less critical.

Lastly, I had Forever - by Drake dubstep remixed by daBears played through the Yorkys and had MO and Jon concerned and turned down the system before a bass drop even though they were HP at 40hz. This goes to show that Bills voltage limiting is great since I have never had that concern in my pro audio existence, never had an amp go into protect, nor blew a speaker. Given I don't have the time gigging many of you do, but it is one less thing for me to worry about when I do.

Sorry this was a little long and not all BFD but it is what it is.

{{{editted to fix model numbers and such provided by Jon Barnhardt}}}

[bassmonster]

Great reviews!!

I like hearing about the pretty much side by side comparisons of the different subs. Very informative and helpful, thanks subharmonic!

[Jon Barnhardt]

The dsp was a ds48 (small potatoes)

Yorkies are ls1208's had about 1500 watts each to them (bridged plx3402's pretty much unlimited)

Ev tops were elx115's

Now that I think about it, I think the yorkies were also fighting the room modes as I have never took those amps to protect mode on them before and they were about as loud as usual but using more watts than normal to get there (usually use bridged 3002's on them, but also never usually run both amps on the same circuit...)

I would say everything else subharmonic said was pretty much spot on.

[subharmonic]

@JB

What were the wbins loaded with and how were they configured?

[subharmonic]

Another couple questions:

Do you guys pronounce piezo: pee-zoe or pi=zoe?

And how do you guys pronounce arauco?

[88h88]

pee-ets-oh for me, as for the wood I fear anything I say will be wrong so I'm not even going to try.

[Dan30]

Excellent a/b experience. You guy should try in an open field next chance you get.

I say pee-zoe for piezo. For arauco I say arou-co (like around without the nd)

[DanielNY]

I always thought it was "PEE-EH-ZO", nice review!

[netwerks]

What were the dimensions of the garage? Ceiling height? perfectly square?

The only reason I ask this is that in many smaller room you can pretty much throw the book out. For instance, I had my annual Halloween party two weeks ago. I have a 1000 sq foot victorian parlor in my home (circa 1880), no way to corner load and there are bay windows and steam radiators everywhere.

It took me 3 x t39 to get the bass right. Of course outside of the house it sounded like it was going to collapse and you could hear it on the half way across town but it sounded excellent inside. People were commenting that they couldn't believe how loud the music was but you could still carry on a conversation and feel it at the same time.

Those same three subs in a square room 2x that size wall loaded sound amazing and I barely have to push them.

Your listening may be flawed as a victim of cancellations.

[Jon Barnhardt]

@subharmonic - the W-Bins had about 60-70 volts going to them I would guess. Don't know the actual eminence model loaded in them as they were like that when I acquired them... 8 Ohm and rated at 800 watts...

@Dan30 - We actually said during the test that someone is gonna complain because it wasn't done in an open field. Well it was about 38 degrees F that day with wind and I'm not ready for the cold yet...

@netwerks - It's more an industrial shop. 30'W x 60'L x 16'H It has corrugated tin (like on pole barn sides and roofs) going about 7-8' on the sides and 12" of batting (insulation) on the walls and ceiling (and behind the tin)

[Dan30]

wow 38 degrees that's like the coldest of cold nights here in LA. There are some years where we don't hit that here. I can understand your position now.

[Jon Barnhardt]

Ha we are just getting started. I'm sure we will hit 20 or thirty BELOW 0 before spring...

Was a balmy 56 today though

[Frederic Gelinas]

wow 38 degrees that's like the coldest of cold nights here in LA.

Don't start on the weather guys. If we won't get too many days under -40 this winter, I'll be happy.

[Titanium Hand]

Sounds like a whole lot of fun! I bet y'all real popular with your neighbors now?

Weather. . . aaah, sounds cold, summer still a few weeks off in Sydney and we hit a lazy 38 degrees Celsius - before lunch a few days ago

[Jon Barnhardt]

Sounds like a whole lot of fun! I bet y'all real popular with your neighbors ?

Nah.... There are a couple of bands that practice nightly in the same complex of shops...