Hello from a bassist! Also: ideas for desktop monitors?

[MarkA]

Hi, all,

I found this forum through Talkbass, via threads discussing different bass cab designs and builds. This is my primary interest, but my needs in that area are evolving and I keep going back and forth on what I want out of a rig, so I’ll table that for now.

My secondary interest I can define more clearly: I’d like to build two desktop-sized speakers for my younger brother to use in reviewing and mixing multi-track recordings (mostly bass, drums, guitar, and vocals). Right now, he’s using a set of cheapie computer speakers from Best Buy because a) money’s tight and b) another player told him, “If you can make the mix sound good on those, it’ll sound good on ANYTHING.” While there is a certain logic to that, I have my doubts. I could go out and buy a set of powered Fostex (or whatever) monitors for $100-$150, which would be a vast improvement over what he’s using, but I like the idea of building something.

The “studio space” is a bedroom, and the “mixing console” is a Zoom R16 digital recorder, set against a wall on a folding table. This is where the speakers will go as well.

Looking through the designs on the BFM homepage, the SLA caught my eye: http://billfitzmaurice.net/SLA.html

Are the SLA a good choice for monitor speakers in this situation, or is there another design that would serve better?

Would a short (three or four “woofers tall” instead of six) version of the SLA make sense? 26” high seems a little big for my brother’s modest setup (he'll only be a couple of feet from each speaker), and I am more concerned that the sound is pleasant, accurate, and helps him to hear the details of a mix than that it be loud. If building a “shorty” will compromise the sound in other ways, though, I’ll go with the full-size version.

Finally, we’ll need some way to power these speakers. I appreciate any suggestions for economical, decent sounding amps that would run well with the Zoom as input.

Thank you!
-Mark

P.S. MODS: If this post would be more appropriate elsewhere, feel free to move it. I put it here as it is my first/introductory post.

P.P.S. I'm generally handy, but have no woodworking experience beyond framing a wall and building an extremely ugly bookshelf in college.

[ontime1269]

Hello welcome to the forum. There is a pro version of the SLA that uses 4 woofers at the bottom of that same page you referenced. It is 29" tall though. If you were to build a pair of those, you would want a sub to go with them though. I'm sure others will chime with some suggestions.

[ewetho]

I'd use mine for that purpose over many sets of Purpose Built (SOLD) speakers of that Genre.

SLA's are great. Needs a sub but once your there

We watch TV with the sub off all the time though and does alright (Not re EQ'd for full range either) but movie time is SUB TIME.

We used them in the shop for a long time for music and while they do change character a bit from near to far field I would not worry about it much. Stunning then Better.

[MarkA]

Sorry to be so late getting back to my own thread! I've had pickup issues with multiple basses (an install on one, seemingly impossible to replace screws on another) demanding my attention.

Thanks for your replies. I'd rather avoid using a sub if I can help it, to keep cost and complexity down (it seems a sub would necessitate another channel at the amp -- or at minimum another crossover). If possible, I'd like to have a simple, full-range stereo setup. This seems more typical of the monitoring setups I've seen used for recording/mixing. While a sub might be really cool for movies, I'm not sure how well it would serve for mixing, where you want an accurate stereo image (say you have a low-frequency source in the left channel -- it might sound like it's coming from the "middle" -- but then maybe not, if its mid-high frequency component is being panned appropriately). I'd also have to think about how to properly balance the output from the sub with the stereo speakers...

At any rate, as this is my first project, I'd like to keep things as simple as possible while still getting the job done. A pair of SLAs seemed the most obvious solution, but I admit that I based that as much on their form-factor as anything. If anyone has a more suitable alternative to suggest, I'm open to it.

Again, I'm shooting for: simple, stereo, desktop-scale monitoring in the context of a very modest, bedroom multi-track studio. Is there a BFM design suitable for this? (Are the SLAs, or do I really need a sub with those?)

Many thanks,
Mark

P.S. Title of thread edited to reflect open-ness to other designs.

[BrentEvans]

There are always tradeoffs. A sub will help you go lower, but at the cost of some electronics and another box. Without a sub, forcing the woofer in a two-way to handle bass as well as midbass can come at the cost of clarity, as a bass hit can distort the midbass, by virtue of the same physical device having to move more for the bass than the midbass.

One thing that a properly designed system will not have a problem with is "locatability" - if you cross the sub over properly (at or below about 100hz, with a relatively steep slope) the bass will not be locatable aurally... and you shouldn't have bass sources panned like that to begin with. Normally, mastered sources sum the bass below 100hz anyway, to give it more volume, and for mono compatibility, since locatability isn't an issue.

[Tom Smit]

Hi MarkA, and welcome to the forum.

My thoughts are to build a two-driver SLA since you will be in the near-field. Find a driver with the appropriate specs, along with a tweeter that will go low enough to go below the cone break-up of the woofer.

[Mikey]

These Dayton BR-1S Monitors are very good for the price, equalling many store-bought monitors costing twice as much. I used them for a few years before I got my B&Ws, and really liked them.

[ewetho]

The Goldwood loaded (per plans) SLAs will dig out down past 80 Hz pretty well at modest volume but the sub stuff would be week. I have no qwalms with recommending the SLA still but you might add a small sub later maybe with a plate amp with crossover or something if you desire more bottom end.

[SirNickity]

Mixing isn't a simple task. It seems like it, but if you want it to be good, you're going to have to invest in equipment, and spend a lot of time learning the subtleties of sound design. Not everyone has the ear and the talent to do it. That's why professionals get paid the big bucks. It's a complex blend of art and science.

That said, if you're not worried about it being ready for radio, you can get "good" results pretty easily, thanks to the huge influx of pro-sumer gear available these days.

For monitors, your most important goal is accuracy. Your friend's advice about sounding good on cheap speakers translating to sounding great on better speakers is bunk, I'm afraid. The problem with cheap speakers is they compromise in several places. It's like trying to paint with color-shaded sunglasses on. Typically, budget speakers will have no real capability in the bass, so they'll make up for it by tuning a port, or using EQ, to boost mid-bass frequencies they can (sort of) play. The result is over-hyped boominess. You'll want to tone this region down in your mix, and then boost the ultra-lows to compensate for the lack of authority. Then when you play this on a system with a subwoofer, your mix is seriously bottom heavy.

I.E., you need FLAT (response, not dimensions) monitors, and you absolutely must have a sub. You're a bass player, so that's going to go double for you.

I plan to build SLAs, but I haven't yet. Generally speaking, PA speakers aren't known for perfect accuracy -- it's more about being loud -- so I don't know if this is the right place for you. If you carefully measure their output with RTA, then EQ as necessary, you may get workable results. I don't really know what to recommend for tops, though maybe those new Yamaha NS10M-lookalikes (I think they're HS80s?) might be a start. I spent $1500 on my monitors, if that puts things in perspective.

For a sub, though, the THT can't be beat. It'll be loud, it'll go deep, and it'll sound ultra clean. You do have to dedicate some time, effort, money, and especially, SPACE to them, however.

The single biggest factor will be the room. Reflections and standing waves will destroy the credibility of any speaker. You absolutely have to deal with that problem, and in a bedroom, you will probably only get 25% of the way. That's just the way it is.

Anyway, if you end up building something, here's your amp and crossover solution:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=300-773

This will be adequate for a nearfield monitoring system.

One last realist word of warning: DIY can save you money, but unless you already have ALL of the tools, and some woodworking and electronics experience, probably not much. If any.

[MarkA]

Been some time since I logged in -- I've been pretty overbooked with work, so many of my projects have been tabled for the moment. I did want to say that I appreciate the detailed and thoughtful replies, and will explore their implications. Thank you!