Engineering Student

[rcko]

Hi I'm an engineering student in the middle-of-nowhere Michigan near Lake Superior.

I asked this at avsforum.com's DIY section, and was largely sent to Bill Fitzmaurice's designs so I figured I'd ask it here.



We have some very abused Advent monitors and a receiver/amp that apparently caught fire this summer - my housemate couldn't believe it still worked yesterday. The sound quality makes me want to puke, and it doesn't even get very loud.

The basement is concrete floor, stone/rock/mortar walls. 7'4" ceiling. Only the main 18'4" x 20' space would usually have people in it. Half of the stone walls are actually covered with wood paneling, spaced about 8-10" off the rock face. Sound is well insulated from ground/2nd floor, as well as from outside. Unfinished wood beam ceiling (a.k.a underside of 1st floor). It's an "amazing" party space with a full bar, kegerator, and little TV above the bar.

I'm looking for a new speaker setup, obviously. The space is only used for parties, not home theater, etc. Loud-thumping-go-deaf bass is not my thing, I'm personally all about quality of sound over quantity. That said, if I want to listen to music I'll put on my awesome headphones and chill out on the couch. This is the party room.

I'm looking for cheap, loud, party sound for $500-600. If I can spend less, great - I have other hobbies demanding my money. Sure, I'd love it if the lows/mids/highs were balanced, but mostly I just want the bass strong enough to impress stupid college kids: "WOW NICE SPEAKERS!" while still maintaining some kind of minimum quality.

I'm a student at an engineering school. All my friends are engineers. I have a jigsaw, circular saw, dremel, drills, multimeters, oscilloscope, soldering irons, whatever (just at my house, school has more equipment if necessary). I can make custom printed circuit boards at school. You can throw at me any amount of technical details and I'll use my resources to figure out what you're talking about (though it might take me awhile). This is a cool basement space that will soon have an automatic bartending machine ran by a computer and custom computer-controlled lighting. That said, I have a lot of hobbies and my classes are very difficult - I don't have a lot of extra time to get a speaker box built "just perfect". Anything DIY is liable to be done fast and sloppy the first time around.

Right now I'm considering building
2 TLAH's
1 T6 Subwoofer ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1358033 )

I'll also need an amp or two to power them and I'm way over my head right now in selecting what will be good. I kind of like the idea of building an amp as long as parts aren't too hard to source.

Can you recommend drivers / amps?Can you recommend anything better for my needs?

[jcmbowman]

First off - welcome to the the forum!

unless I'm mistaken and there's another haven for engineering geeks in northern Michigan, you're hailing from wonderful Michigan Tech. I have a lot of friends who wen to school up there, and considering the sheer volume of snowfall you get, I'm not surprised you've built a party haven in your basement.

For your purposes, I'd say that a pair of TLAHs, or possible a set of 4 SLAs would do a bang-up job of filling that space.

As far as subwoofer, you're not doing home theater, so I think you'd be well served by a Table Tuba (TT) - you can build it in square format, or low profile version, and it can also be built with inexpensive drivers, just like the T6. If you compare the response charts, the TT is marginally better than the T6 in the lower regions, but in the critical 55-75hz range the TT is at least 6dB louder. If you've got the space and a real desire for more output, you can either build a pair of TTs, or build one that is loaded with 2 drivers. For what you're planning, I'd probably go with a a TT loaded with 2 of the MCM Drivers.

As far as amplifiers go - you could build your own, but it might be easier to just see what you can find in your area as far as craigslist, garage sales, church swap meets, etc. These designs are extremely sensitive, so a 100-watt/channel stereo receiver from the 1970s is more than adequate - especially since if it has any issues you can just use it as an excuse to hook up the silly-scope and fix it up proper.

[Frederic Gelinas]

I second the TLAH and Table Tuba option. Easily fit in your budget and will impress stupid college kids.

[Bruce Weldy]

I second the TLAH and Table Tuba option. Easily fit in your budget and will impress stupid college kids.

And smart ones.........

[el_ingeniero]

TT + TLAH, for sure.

With a ceiling that low, you'll need to use the floor standing option.

Also I'd seriously consider 2 Table Tubas: small spaces often need
more than 1 sub for even coverage, and you can use them for coffee
or end tables.

Check the other theads for "Sony buyout drivers" and "Apex Jr tweeters",
for decent quality drivers that cost less than a dollar each (though
shipping takes that up a bit).

For the TT, look around to see if the discount code for the MCM driver
is still active.

[DJPhatman]

For the TT, look around to see if the discount code for the MCM driver
is still active.

I would recommend you use the Tang Band W8-740 driver. For only a bit more money, it's really a much better driver. Otherwise, a big +1 to TLAH and TT.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I'd go for the SLA over the TLAH for this application....four of them in the major corners of the room.

A pair of TT's is a great choice for bass & extra seating.

--Stan Graves

[Radian]

Hi I'm an engineering student in the middle-of-nowhere Michigan near Lake Superior.

Check out the 6th floor of the ME-EM building. SAE has a nice wood shop there...and stable atmospheric conditions perfect for building cabinets and RC airplanes. Also, don't forget to check out the anechoic chamber in the EERC...6th or 8th floor, if I recall correctly.

[elliott]

I would build two davids, you would only need a basic two chanel amp to run them.

[DJPhatman]

I would build two davids, you would only need a basic two chanel amp to run them.

-1
You have to treat the basement as 2 different rooms, as the mids and highs are not going to fully pass through the dividing wall shown in the drawing. 4 cabs minimum to cover each room in stereo.

[Charles Warwick]

Check out the 6th floor of the ME-EM building. SAE has a nice wood shop there...and stable atmospheric conditions perfect for building cabinets and RC airplanes. Also, don't forget to check out the anechoic chamber in the EERC...6th or 8th floor, if I recall correctly.

I'm so jealous, we don't have an anechoic chamber at ISU.

You have to treat the basement as 2 different rooms

He may not need speakers in the other room since he mentioned that there usually aren't people in it, but he'll have to cue us in if he wants it there regardless. If he does just want sound in the one room the Davids may be a good option since he would only have to buy one stereo amp which would cut down on costs.

[EDIT] I take that back about the davids being cheaper: the parts required for the passive woofer LP are near 90 bucks on partsexpress (2X 18mh and 2X 10mh), so unless you can get free or discount components from the EE shop I'd stick with the TLAH and either a TT or TAT/T18.

Not to throw a wrench into things, but if you can't find a good space for the TT or the TTLP (either of which is an excellent option), I'd highly recommend a Tall AutoTuba or T18 in a corner of the room. I used a TAT for 2 years before I moved into a marginally bigger apartment, and upgraded to the TT, but it was still plenty loud and nice and small.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I'm so jealous, we don't have an anechoic chamber at ISU.

You do. It's more commonly referred to as a pasture.
Chambers are convenient, but you can use any outdoor setting away from buildings and excessive environmental noise.

[rcko]

Just the one main room, the rest is not very hospitable.

I'm researching everything I can. Been a busy week with career fair and such. Thinking this amp would be appropriate:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036V ... 952J39ESMH

Should I use another to power the sub or get a subwoofer amp from Dayton, etc?

I will definitely check out the anechoic chamber and workshops. It's harder today to utilize the workshops for non-academic work but I will look into it

[el_ingeniero]

Just the one main room, the rest is not very hospitable.

I'm researching everything I can. Been a busy week with career fair and such. Thinking this amp would be appropriate:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036V ... 952J39ESMH

Should I use another to power the sub or get a subwoofer amp from Dayton, etc?

I will definitely check out the anechoic chamber and workshops. It's harder today to utilize the workshops for non-academic work but I will look into it

Ah no. Always mentally append "of Crap" to the brand name "Pyle".

Seriously, for that amount of coin, you should be able to find a nice, used HT receiver that will do everything you need in one box.

[bassmonster]

Thinking this amp would be appropriate:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036V ... 952J39ESMH
)

Uh oh. I used to look at Pyle's equipment all the time, thinking it was a great deal. Remember you get what you pay for, especially in audio. Look at the specs of that amp. Here's what it says, from the link.

Using sophisticated circuitry and premium components for uncompromising musicality -- this product is famous for delivering powerful and accurate sound.

1. "sophisticated circuitry, premium components". Really. If it were truly premium components, it would probably cost more. (Although for the price you could get much better used as others have said.) Also, last I checked, Pyle were not CEA compliant. (If I'm wrong please correct me)
2. "this product is famous" Pyle is not famous. They have never really been known as a top-rate company. Although they used to make some decent stuff in the late 1900s, depending on who you ask, their quality has gone down and their output specs bloated. They are just like any other cheap white van company, etc Boss, Pyramid, and others depending on what models. Any number you see on a Pyle amp is overrated and definitely peak power ratings. Peak power is irrelevant. You want the RMS number which is much lower than peak.