Opinions of a Presonus 16.0.2 Wanted

[Dave Non-Zero]

So is there nothing in this price range with recallable gains and motorised faders? I have an Ls9 and i was lookin at a smaller digital mixer. I also have an old o1v but the non recallable gains are a bit annoying, and it doesn't have enough channels. Am I asking too much? I would rather require external eqs or comps than not have scene recall that didn't Include gain and monitor and fader recall.

[Bruce Weldy]

So is there nothing in this price range with recallable gains and motorised faders? I have an Ls9 and i was lookin at a smaller digital mixer. I also have an old o1v but the non recallable gains are a bit annoying, and it doesn't have enough channels. Am I asking too much? I would rather require external eqs or comps than not have scene recall that didn't Include gain and monitor and fader recall.

Might be asking too much at this point. Moving faders for under $3k is asking a bit much....but give it a year or two.

In 1982, we bought a used 16x16 Tangent recording console - $9000.....and I had to wire it up. No XLR or 1/4" connectors - all Molex (that means a real tedious PITA). Not to mention the $5000 Lexicon 224, dbx compressors, Urei graphic EQs.....you get the picture.

Now you can plug and play with waaaaaaayyyy more features and quality for under $3k.....we've come a long way baby.

[BrentEvans]

So is there nothing in this price range with recallable gains and motorised faders? I have an Ls9 and i was lookin at a smaller digital mixer. I also have an old o1v but the non recallable gains are a bit annoying, and it doesn't have enough channels. Am I asking too much? I would rather require external eqs or comps than not have scene recall that didn't Include gain and monitor and fader recall.

Might be asking too much at this point. Moving faders for under $3k is asking a bit much....but give it a year or two.

SAC can meet many of these requirements for around $3000, if you purchase wisely. The only sticking point would be recallable trims, but there is +20db of digital trim in the software, so you can set the analog trim on your preamps down quite a bit and boost it digitally (and transparently) to usuable levels. Been using this method for a couple of years and it works great, you just have to get around the paradigm shift.

[Ken Lustgarten]

At this price point motorized faders would mean other compromises such as lesser preamps, that is not a sacrifice that I can not live with. One of the strong points of this board is the quality of the pres. It does have fader locators so that you can position the faders back in the same position. For a 16 channel board that most of the time will not be maxed out this is ok. For someone regularly doing larger events which in turn generate more money then the added expense is justifiable. There is nothing for gains. You either have to make a note or take a picture of the settings. While fully motorized would be sweet, the price isn't. Another goal for me is to do away with outboard gear. As a one man operation the slimmer I can keep things the better.

SAC would do all of the things that I want but I do not want to spend the money. $3000 is a lot to invest for a small guy like myself. The 16.4.2 cost half of that. I did get the demo and it looks promising. If my needs grow in the future I would strongly consider going with SAC Another consideration for me is recording live performances. Saw Studio looks like it most likely is required and if so that puts it out if range for me. I need to ask this question on the SAC forum, does SAC support the use of another DAW (I use Reaper) for recording while mixing a live performance?

[BrentEvans]

SAC would do all of the things that I want but I do not want to spend the money. $3000 is a lot to invest for a small guy like myself. The 16.4.2 cost half of that. I did get the demo and it looks promising. If my needs grow in the future I would strongly consider going with SAC Another consideration for me is recording live performances. Saw Studio looks like it most likely is required and if so that puts it out if range for me. I need to ask this question on the SAC forum, does SAC support the use of another DAW (I use Reaper) for recording while mixing a live performance?

SAC doesn't care if you run another recording app as long as you have enough speed (to prevent slipped buffers) and your sound card's ASIO drivers support multiple clients. This is no problem with RME or MOTU.

And, if you're talking about a 16 channel system, the cost might not be as much as you think:

Software: $600 (SAC for $500 plus Levelizer for $100, best plug out there)
PC: $500 or less (you can get a perfectly good refurbed P4 machine for $150 lots of places, these will run 16 i/o with several monitor mixers)
MOTU 424/2408 combo on ebay: $350
2 Art TubeOpto B-stock off ebay (most are new, and sold as b-stock to get around MAP): $350 ea, $700
Cables & Connectors: $50
8 channel BCF2000 fader packs: $200 ea (or less on ebay), 2 for $400..

That's right at $3k... but if you shop around a bit you can get it closer to $2k... if you shave off $350 of the PC by getting a steal on it, or even more by using one you already have. You also might be able to get by with one fader pack... many do. That's $500 of savings together... and deals can be found on the MOTU stuff tooRemember that the faders in SAC "chase" the screen (if you want them to) so you can move them with one click. I mix with no faders at all... just the mouse. Works great... but I realize not everyone can work that way.

Anyway.. you could do it close to $2k... that makes it worth a second look, I think. For that price, with the MOTU gear, you have a 24 channel system too... 8 of them would be line level until you add a third preamp, but you can go up to 72 with the 424 card (techincally more, but SAC supports 72).

[Ken Lustgarten]

SAC doesn't care if you run another recording app as long as you have enough speed (to prevent slipped buffers) and your sound card's ASIO drivers support multiple clients. This is no problem with RME or MOTU.

That is good to know. Being able to use my existing DAW saves a lot of money.

And, if you're talking about a 16 channel system, the cost might not be as much as you think:

Software: $600 (SAC for $500 plus Levelizer for $100, best plug out there)
PC: $500 or less (you can get a perfectly good refurbed P4 machine for $150 lots of places, these will run 16 i/o with several monitor mixers)

The PC is no problem. I do a mixture of IT and sound work. I have parts laying around to make several suitable machines.

MOTU 424/2408 combo on ebay: $350
2 Art TubeOpto B-stock off ebay (most are new, and sold as b-stock to get around MAP): $350 ea, $700
Cables & Connectors: $50
8 channel BCF2000 fader packs: $200 ea (or less on ebay), 2 for $400..

That's right at $3k... but if you shop around a bit you can get it closer to $2k... if you shave off $350 of the PC by getting a steal on it, or even more by using one you already have. You also might be able to get by with one fader pack... many do. That's $500 of savings together... and deals can be found on the MOTU stuff tooRemember that the faders in SAC "chase" the screen (if you want them to) so you can move them with one click. I mix with no faders at all... just the mouse. Works great... but I realize not everyone can work that way.

Mixing with the mouse was another major concern. Glad to see that it works good enough.

Anyway.. you could do it close to $2k... that makes it worth a second look, I think. For that price, with the MOTU gear, you have a 24 channel system too... 8 of them would be line level until you add a third preamp, but you can go up to 72 with the 424 card (techincally more, but SAC supports 72).

Thanks for the reply. It was very informative and answers many of my questions about SAC. It is something new and there is resistance to change from what has worked so well in the past. I have the 16.4.2 here now and it is an incredible mixer. If I outgrow it I will strongly consider going SAC.