Kick Bass and Bass guitar

[billgwaltney]

We primarily play Black style gospel music which means five string bass guitar and kick bass have to really drive well. We have keyboards, bass guitar, drums and either acoustic or electric guitar depending on the song. My system consist of two 39” wide t39s which each having duel 12” drivers and two otop 15s. I use a driverack, effects unit, sonic max, 32 band eq for my monitors, compressors (eight channels of compression that I can use), Mackie 16 onyx board and 3 amps that has a channel dedicated to each speaker. I use five of the compression channels for vocals. I use one channel for the kick bass, one for snare, and one for the bass guitar. I am looking for suggestions for settings for the eq sweeps on the Mackie and compressors settings for the instruments to get the right level of kick and separation so the bass guitar and the kick bass find their place within the mix. Drums are mic of course
Kick bass EQ sweep setting
Kick bass compressor setting
Bass guitar EQ sweep settings
Bass guitar Compressors settings
Snare Eq sweep settings
Snare compressor settings.

[Ron K]

Employ the high pass filter on the subs. Generally 35-40Hz.

Most kicks simply require a mid scooped EQ type setting. Emphasize the 70-80Hz range for thud.Be careful not to over push EQ below the 40Hz range. Use 4-8K for pedal click.

Micing technique can play an important role along with the actual mic used. I like D112 about 4 inches from the batter resting on a pillow. PG52s just breaching the hole pointed at the batter. Beta 52s inside but as far away from the batter as you can get it. MD421s just breaching the hole pointed downwards on a 15degree angle. Front and back mic can be used as well. SM57 or SM91 on the front out of polarity with a D112 works wonders but is a pain to set up.

Bass guitar I find stands out by pushing a wide Q 800Hz about 10-16db! I steer clear of the lower ranges with bass guitar simply because the fundamentals are generally pretty strong down there and pushed they tend to muddy up the mix a good bit.

Snare EQ requires adjustment to that particular snare. For example if it's a Piccolo Snare of course you wouldn't want to boost 250!
Rock Snares benefit from 150-250Hz-EQ to add drive. 2.5K to 4.5K to add crispiness. I run a 350 dip about .5 octave wide with a 200 peak about 1 octave wide. Filter out the real low crap with a 80-90Hz HPF.

Kick compression settings. I like gate and compression or compander. Your choice.

I wouldn't try getting a thumping Kick without a gate set to a fast release less then 70-90 ms and a short hold time. 0 attack time.You can try raising the release depending on players style and average song tempo. The short release mainly for speed metal. You can go as high as 400ms but I wouldn't.

Kick Compressor... Ratio 3:1, Attack 9ms, Release around 60ms, 5-6db boost on output This should be a Soft knee type!

Bass Guitar Compressor...Ratio 2:1, Attack 15-20ms, Release 400-500ms, Boost Gain about 3-5db This should be a soft knee type

Snare Gate... I like a 800ms decay on the snare gate.Also gate the verb if your using one and put this at 800ms as well.

Snare Compressor...Ratio 2.5:1, Attack 8ms, Release 15ms, 3-4db gain and Soft Knee Type.

These should be good starting points. Adjust thresholds to suit input gains that you normally use keeping in mind added gain post compression. This helps you get a handle on keeping the strips clean especially when the processors are inserted!

One other thing I would suggest. If you really want to make things sit well in the mix get a mixer that has parametric EQ. Not just sweeps but adjustable Qs.It really does make a big difference.

[AntonZ]

Bass guitar I find stands out by pushing a wide Q 800Hz about 10-16db!

Especially effective for fretless bass. Around 800Hz is where the mmmwwwaaaaahhh lives. Pushing this freq will emphasize the typical fretless character a lot.

Took notes of you suggestions for snare/kick, haven't had much chance to play with mic-ed drums as of yet. Thanks.

[Ron K]

Bass guitar I find stands out by pushing a wide Q 800Hz about 10-16db!

Especially effective for fretless bass. Around 800Hz is where the mmmwwwaaaaahhh lives. Pushing this freq will emphasize the typical fretless character a lot.

Took notes of you suggestions for snare/kick, haven't had much chance to play with mic-ed drums as of yet. Thanks.

A lot of sound guys try and EQ bass down low.While this can work in some instances I generally find the fundamental frequencies quite strong from most bass instruments down low.The upper harmonic structure is where things begin to develop their own place in the mix.

Of course this will not apply to every situation and may apply more such as Fretless as Anton mentioned or Oldies style playing on a typical 4 string where the player is staying off the E string.

One thing I should mention is it's pretty hard to fix an "input" problem. Such as a bass whose player has no clue in how to EQ his bass and sends you a direct Post line! Prudence is paramount. Know how to get the bass sounding good at the rig first. Also know where to tap the input signal from. Micing a bass cabinet requires some creative EQ and filtering down low so as to avoid rumble.

There's no 1 right way. These are my usual starting points but again I probably wouldn't use any of them for a Polka band, Blue Grass band or a Concert Band!

[Greg Plouvier]

I would echo Ron's suggestions for the most part and add that it all starts with the mic or di as the case may be. Great mics can go a long way towards using less eq. A great bass drum mic through a decent system shouldn't need a lot of eq unless you'e going for a very clicky attack - particularly if you're using gate,comp and the drum is tuned properly with minimal muffling. A little cut in the 350-500 region, add a little attack - these frequencies can vary a lot depending on style and appropriateness - somewhere between 1k and 4k or so, and I roll off the high some as well, with a bump in the low end. Drums must be tuned well to really achieve stellar drum sounds. I usually mic and direct bass, preferring not to accept bassists line outs from their rigs. I use the mic as the mid bass area and up tone generator, rolling off the low end some to avoid rumble. The di is for more tone and rumble free lows. To achieve separation between bass snare and bass drum try not to use a lot of the same frequencies when eqing. Oh - and I would consider losing the sonic max.

[jimmywrights]

Experiment with the Attack settings on the gate for your kick! It can really help to make the click sound really nice, and eliminate funky hammer sounds

[Ron K]

Experiment with the Attack settings on the gate for your kick! It can really help to make the click sound really nice, and eliminate funky hammer sounds

True is that. In fact if you have access to some older nosier gates like the early Behringer ones you can get some pedal click without actually having any pedal click. If that makes any sense.The earlier Peavey ones do this as well.

Some older gates are clicky themselves.They "actually" make a clicking sound when set to faster attacks.Sometimes they click when closing as well!

Best to work with a well tuned drum however.

Another nice trick is to filter/gate a kick mic and send it to a DM5 or another digital drum module.You can "Y" split the signal taking the live kick to the board and the same gated signal to the DM5. Adjust the gain setting on the DM5 to trigger a speedmetal kick (kick number 8 on a DM5)and run that signal back to the board and Eq out the bottom end of that signal.Now you can use the open mic to get the drums body and punch and the triggered unit to supply the click and upper body of the drum sound.Of course getting the correct velocity settings and such makes it more believable so a bit of menu fudging comes into play here.

This is actually cool for creating different sounds in the studio as well but we'll try and stay on topic for now.

[Steve Regier]

+1 on everything with the kick drum and 800Hz for bass mix.
I would like to add that for our 5 string guys we use a small pile of Tuba36s FOH and high pass them at 25Hz without EQ emphasis. This extra extension really brings out the phat bottom and growl of the 5 string while the 800Hz area lift places it in the mix.

[BoostFab]

are you guys utilizing the DI box on the bass guitar for sending signal to the foh mix?

[guitarkeys.com]

are you guys utilizing the DI box on the bass guitar for sending signal to the foh mix?

Most do.

Some will capture both and mix them at FOH. Unless it is a signature bass sound (effects not routed through an amp), I generally just grab the non-EQed output from the head.

Yes, I know I know, "but I spent hours perfecting that bass tone in my bedroom!"

Jamie

[BoostFab]

are you guys utilizing the DI box on the bass guitar for sending signal to the foh mix?

Most do.

Some will capture both and mix them at FOH. Unless it is a signature bass sound (effects not routed through an amp), I generally just grab the non-EQed output from the head.

Yes, I know I know, "but I spent hours perfecting that bass tone in my bedroom!"

Jamie

wouldn't the signal coming out from the head typically post fader? i rather not have the signal affected by the bassist turning his volume knob.

[guitarkeys.com]

Your right that it would depend on the head and it's options.

Some have the direct out that is independent of volume and EQ. Love those.

Good DI box and skip the head all together.

Tell the bass player "we don't adjust volume after soundcheck" and why and you should be golden as bass players get neglected alot and will be excited that someone actually cares.

Jamie

[basey]

I don't know if these tricks have been mentioned or not. (I haven't read the whole thread)
A nice trick for getting the bass and the kick to play nice together is to bring up the bass a couple db with a sharp q at the same low mid cut frequency of the kick. (the cut that pulls the ring out of the kick drum) I've always had pretty good luck with that.
Also a good way to find the effective upper mid for the bass is to do a sharp q full cut and find the frequency that makes the bass disappear somewaht and then boost that one to taste.

$.02 IMHO YMMV

[el_ingeniero]

I don't know if these tricks have been mentioned or not. (I haven't read the whole thread)
A nice trick for getting the bass and the kick to play nice together is to bring up the bass a couple db with a sharp q at the same low mid cut frequency of the kick. (the cut that pulls the ring out of the kick drum) I've always had pretty good luck with that.
Also a good way to find the effective upper mid for the bass is to do a sharp q full cut and find the frequency that makes the bass disappear somewaht and then boost that one to taste.

$.02 IMHO YMMV

How about separating the left hand of the piano from the bass?

[DaveK]

How about separating the left hand of the piano from the bass?

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