Used Digital Mixers for Live Sound

[el_ingeniero]

I have some situations coming up where a digital console would let me get my feet wet in live sound because cheap analog boards don't come with PEQs & dynamics on each channel, and the local tango group (piano, bass, 2 or 3 strings and 2 vocalists [but no duets yet]) I would run sound for have pretty well maxed out their equipment budget with a cheap Yamaha analog mixer and a pile of mics.

My understanding of what I would need to bring to the table is 8 channels each of gate, PEQ and compressor. That would upgrade their sound quite a lot, and make me pretty happy as well, since they actually get playing for dancers.

I could invest in 6 channels of rack mounted PEQ and dynamics, but honestly I think a digital mixer (even a big heavy 50 pound bastard) feeding my DEQ 2496 would be less costly and more portable than 12U or more of analog effects.

Tango groups are acoustic. The traditional setup is piano, bass, strings and bandoneons (like a concertina on steroids: 132 or 144 keys, 5 feet of bellows, and achromatic [like a harmonica makes a different note blowing versus sucking]). Bandos need 2 mics, but you can put a single mic between the left and right keyboards of 2 bando players. So a 16 channel board could serve a 12 person group comfortably.

At the same time, there's just no way that $1,300 for a Presonus 16.0.2 or $1,700 for a O1V96 is doable. There's also SAC, but there I'm still looking at $1000 or so for a firewire interface and SAC licence, and I'd have to put Windows on my i5 laptop (not a palatable option).

That leaves used gear, as usual. According to the reviews I've found, some possibilities are:

* Yamaha O1V and O3D
* Panasonic Ramsa WR-DA7
* Behringer DDX-3216

Right now, I'm considering the Yamaha units because there are a ton of them out there, even though better sound quality could be had.

Both the Ramsa and the Behringer have great reps for good sound, but I'm inclined against the Ramsa because Panasonic is out of the pro sound business and spare parts is a problem. Not sure about the Behringer, that mixer had a reputation for fail back in the day.

Bottom line, is that both the Yamaha units still have a pretty fair sized market, so I could sell it if I had to, and spare parts are still plentiful. I'd take the O1V if I could find one in decent shape for less than $300 or so. I'd pay maybe $500 for a fully functional O3D, because I could mix for a 12 player formation quite easily with it, and that would be very cool. I know these are lowball prices, but I think I could get that price if I am patient and disciplined.

Am I missing anything in my analysis?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Yamaha 01v, and no, sound quality does not suffer one bit. Or byte.

[el_ingeniero]

Yamaha 01v, and no, sound quality does not suffer one bit. Or byte.

A Yammy then. There are rather more O3d mixers floating about on ebay/craigslist right now, though.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Yamaha 01v, and no, sound quality does not suffer one bit. Or byte.

A Yammy then. There are rather more O3d mixers floating about on ebay/craigslist right now, though.

The 03 is very much a recording desk, and has only 8 mic inputs. 01v is more live sound oriented and has 12 mic inputs.

[gdougherty]

If you think you could handle mixing with SAC, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it over a used 01v. I've owned and used both. Loaning out the 01v is the only time it gets used anymore.

[BrentEvans]

If you think you could handle mixing with SAC, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it over a used 01v. I've owned and used both. Loaning out the 01v is the only time it gets used anymore.

Can't the O1V be used as a control surface in SAC? There's a MCT file for it.

[gdougherty]

If you think you could handle mixing with SAC, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it over a used 01v. I've owned and used both. Loaning out the 01v is the only time it gets used anymore.

Can't the O1V be used as a control surface in SAC? There's a MCT file for it.

Yes but it's only 12 faders plus a master and at 35lbs + case not a very convenient unit to use. The bcf2000 does everything else in less space and weight.

[el_ingeniero]

If you think you could handle mixing with SAC, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it over a used 01v. I've owned and used both. Loaning out the 01v is the only time it gets used anymore.

SAC makes sense when you think you will need to scale up past the 16 input level someday.

I've looked at it, and after paying for the SAC license, I still need to spend hundreds more on a Firewire or ADAT type interface with decent preamps.

I can probably sell an O1V for what I pay for it. As great as SAC might be, I suspect the secondary market for SAC licenses is nonexistent.

[gdougherty]

If you think you could handle mixing with SAC, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it over a used 01v. I've owned and used both. Loaning out the 01v is the only time it gets used anymore.

SAC makes sense when you think you will need to scale up past the 16 input level someday.

I've looked at it, and after paying for the SAC license, I still need to spend hundreds more on a Firewire or ADAT type interface with decent preamps.

I can probably sell an O1V for what I pay for it. As great as SAC might be, I suspect the secondary market for SAC licenses is nonexistent.

You can sell sac and saw licenses in the forums. I'd expect to get a good chunk of original value back since the sac price is always $500 unless it's on the rare sale. It's not a price competitor for a used 01v, but having used both, I much prefer the versatility of sac. At most an 01v will give you 20 preamp channels in, but only 12 can be used in all 4 monitor mixes. The other 8 can only route to 2 monitor mixes and the other 8 are very limited in processing. I'd take sac for a simple 8-16 channel mix over anything else in that input size range because I do typically use the extra features. Small boards tend to be stripped down in features where sac in that range is only limited by the physical I/o you pair it with. If you had a computer or could scrounge one on the cheap you could build a sac rig around a Profire 2626 and another 8 channels of preamp for about $1500. Not cheap, but the sound and feature set wouldn't be cheap either.

It's just an option.

[el_ingeniero]

In the best of all possible worlds, an SAC rig running off an old laptop and a firewire interface (Echo Audio 8Pre or FocusRite Pro40, maybe) would be the ticket. But $1500 is way out of my price range, even the Yammy is something of an extravagance.

I may have scored an 01V for $300 plus shipping. It's not in perfect shape, but it will do what I want it to--take a small acoustic group and make them sound their best.

I'll know later tonight.

[imnotded]

In the best of all possible worlds, an SAC rig running off an old laptop and a firewire interface (Echo Audio 8Pre or FocusRite Pro40, maybe) would be the ticket. But $1500 is way out of my price range, even the Yammy is something of an extravagance.

I may have scored an 01V for $300 plus shipping. It's not in perfect shape, but it will do what I want it to--take a small acoustic group and make them sound their best.

I'll know later tonight.

I'm pretty sure that parts are not factory available for the early model 01V's. Make sure you can fully test it before you hand your cash over.

[el_ingeniero]

In the best of all possible worlds, an SAC rig running off an old laptop and a firewire interface (Echo Audio 8Pre or FocusRite Pro40, maybe) would be the ticket. But $1500 is way out of my price range, even the Yammy is something of an extravagance.

I may have scored an 01V for $300 plus shipping. It's not in perfect shape, but it will do what I want it to--take a small acoustic group and make them sound their best.

I'll know later tonight.

I'm pretty sure that parts are not factory available for the early model 01V's. Make sure you can fully test it before you hand your cash over.

There is a suspect mic pre that I can tell. But if all else is intact, I'll be happy given the price: this is literally the only way I can afford to make a difference. An SAC rig or a newer 01V is not happening.

[Dave Non-Zero]

I may have scored an 01V for $300 plus shipping. It's not in perfect shape, but it will do what I want it to--take a small acoustic group and make them sound their best.

+1

If you have a specific band or situation that is within that many inputs, then the o1v is perfect for the task and a million times better than the equivalent analogue board.
Once you have that saved setting, the tweaking for a night will take no time at all, and you just need to plug the mic cables in and go.

You will never want to go back to analogue.

The only people who still love analogue are the tour engineers who don't have to lug it about, set it up, or patch it in.

[mattaudio]

Get the 01v with an ADAT I/O card.

Then pick up good rack preamps when the budget allows.

Down the line, you'll be most of the way to a SAC system.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Get the 01v with an ADAT I/O card.

Then pick up good rack preamps when the budget allows.

+1

The ADA8000 is a good budget choice for a preamp.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/ADA8000.aspx