Crown XTi, Really worth the money?

[Robin_Larsson]

Hi,

I´m asking because I really dont know right now, Is it really worth it to spend double the money on 2 XTi amps, compared to say 2 Behringer EP/EPX something and a DCX 2496.
If the XTi´s dont fail, or generally work much better than the Behringers, then I´ll go with the Crowns, but it looks like there have been some problems with the XTi´s to? Have read alot on Crowns troubleshooting forum, and while most problems seem to be with the older amps, and mostly the same types of problem, there seems to be a number of problems occuring.
My biggest reason for going Crown would be not needing to send stuff to service or having breakdowns on gigs. Otherwise I can buy Behringer from Thomann and still get 3 years no fault warranty, even if Crowns warranty is better.

I would prefer the XTi 4000, mainly for the subs, cause they give more power, although rated at 0.5% THD, Behringer rates at 0.1 and 1%, atleast on the EPX. Is 0.5% THD good/bad?

Also, have anyone here tested the Thomann T.Amp D3400 or its siblings? Very nice numbers, no idea how they actually work. http://www.thomann.de/se/the_tamp_d3400.htm
But the Thomann speakers I´ve used, like The Box TA 18 active single 18 sub, works really good, sounds nice and I have not seen one fail yet, and we´ve played them to just under clip for 10 hours straight.

To me it doesnt look like it would be worth going say QSC G7 amps and a Driverack PA+, cause it would give less power, cost more and weigh more than 2 XTi 4000, so it feels like its either Crown or some cheaper amps and a DCX 2496.

As you might know I need to power 4 T48s with 3015s and for now 2 DR 280 3012/Piezo. Would it be good enough with an XTi 2000 for the DRs? Seems like people dont like to run on much more than half power, and then the 2000 have headroom to spare even if driving 4 cabs. I cant find any volt limits for the DR 280s in the plans, neither for the woofer or the piezos.

Simply put, I dont know what amps to choose right now, and after reading some negative info on the XTis I´m no longer so sure there really the best choice. I need to have stuff that works, sounds goog and can drive my speakers hard for long periods.

Have anyone here had any issues with the XTi´s? Anyone here how have used both the Behringer EPX amps and DCX 2496 and the XTi´s and can compare?

Sorry for the long and rambling post, hope someone can give me some good advice anyway

Best Regards
Robin Larsson

[Robin_Larsson]

I should add that we will be using it for a mobile PA, both in and outdoors, both rental to other and a lot of our own events. Something like 1-4 weekends per month of usage. And I really hate it when cheap gear f*cks up my setups and gigs..

[Dave Non-Zero]

I have the epx4000 running 4 t48 with a dcx/deq, and also an xti1000 that I use for small things and monitors. The only thing I have had trouble with is the deq. With fried egg noise on one of the outputs then intermittent output on another. Luckily there are enough outputs that I could just swap to another one and it's been running fine like that ever since. I've done small setups with a TAT and tops just using the xti and the DSP works well. I would definately prefer to have the xti over the epx/dcx combo for plenty reasons. Weight being a large one! Also you can't ignore that it looks more pro to have the xti, and even if one did go down at a gig, you would probable get more sympathy with a rack of xti than if you had a rack of behringer.

[Dave Non-Zero]

Oh, and the xti2000 would be great for 3012loaded 280s. The reason there is not a voltage limit stated is that you are meant to be able to hear the tops complaining before danger levels. Basically you limit at the speakers power level.
( that's assuming you are running them in the appropriate bandpass of course)
I've never heard my tops complain, even when I've run them HARD with amps the size of the xti2000, so they will take the full amount the xti will give with glorious undistorted clean sound.
( and that's with deltalite 280s, you should get even more with the 3012s!)

[Robin_Larsson]

Dave, thanks man! You do make some good points, and I feel my confidence in the XTi´s returning Still, I dont wanna pay more if I dont get a better product, but can there really be any doubt that the XTi´s are far superior to the Behringer combos? And of course, even the best equipment fails every now and then, nothing is indestructible.

Anyone had any problems with the XTi´s, or do you all love them?:)

All things considered, the XTi´s are my preferred choice, atleast if I can be sure they will be less prone to problems than the cheaper ones, cause they are clearly better on all other specs.
If one fails during a show I could finish the show by running everything on the one remaining, in mono, maybe not 4 T48s on one channel on a XTi 2000, but atleast 2 without issue. That would be an advantage to go with two 4000s, as you´ve said before Dave. But if dont really need or can use the power of a 4000 to run my tops, then it would be nice to save the 200 euros that is the difference in price. Sure, I could run 6 or 8 tops later on with on 4000, but I´ll likely never do that, and much more likely is that I want to run two rigs with 2-4 tops each, which should be perfect on a 2000 each. That could also be combined to a super-rigg, with more power to each top and more controll over the array thanks to double the DSP power.

So, spending time and money on testing a setup with T.Apmp D3400´s and maybe a small one for the tweeters, and a DCX 2496, would be a waste?

//Robin

[DanielNY]

I've been running xti's for about two years, but I dont move them around much. I've also been curious about the EPX amps so I picked up an EPX3000 a few weeks ago and I gotta say the fit and finish is very clean and well made. I'm going to be putting the EPX on TUBA 60 duty soon but so far with the initial sound checks I've done they sound great. Like Dave said, you will get more respect in the event of a failure with Crown in your rack but the question is, will it make that much more difference in sound quality? Or portability? I don't think so.. Nothing you would be able to discern in real world use anyway.

Both Crown and Behringer have had their faults in early stages of production, with behringer typically taking a bit longer to get things right, but both products have been out for years and I think they have worked out the kinks.

Think about this, for the price of an XTI4000 you can get your hands on two EPX2000 or if you shop around 2 x EPX3000, which both have a higher power rating than the xti2000. This should cover you for any failures and keep some change in your pocket to put towards the dcx.

[Robin_Larsson]

Hmm, damn you DanielNY I was just begining to decide on the XTi´s again:P I could almost get 3 EPX 4000 for the price of one XTi 4000, but they are rated at 870W pc in 4 ohm, RMS, against the 1200W in the XTi. So, would not get out the max of my 3015LF´s, but rather close.
But, I would prefer to buy them from Thomann in that case, and they dont have neither the EPX 3000 in stock, and dont even list the EPX 4000, I´ll give them a call later today. Mostly because they give 3 year no fault warranty(atleast I see it like that) on everything they sell.

Must decide soon, need amps before 4:e of june..

Is the Driverack PA+ really preferable over the halfpriced DCX 2496? The Behringer unit seems to have better limiters and more flexibility, but of course less EQ and quality..

//Robin

[netwerks]

Hey Robin-

FWIW I have three xti4k i bought all 2nd hand all at various times for <$450 so I had redundancy if I needed it. I was never in a hurry to buy and kept my eyes and ears on ebay and craigslist and got some deals most people wouldn't wait around for.

I looked at the Behringer EP and EPX at the time I was trying to make a decision but went with the XTI because they were lighter than the EP and not many were using the EPX at the time so I couldn't get any hard feedback or "social proof" if you will from the others here. XTI was an "all in one unit" I could set and forget. My wife uses them and I also have a few friends I loan them out to and I can walk them through anything that comes an issue over the phone. I've run two f mine with 4 3012lf T39 subs on one channel for several hours on end (not that hard because I had more than enough db for the room I was in) more than once and never had a problem. Independent of power, I think it boils down to a few things of which I finally based my decision on, albeit not really scientific:

a.) Are you a label whore? If so buy crown XTI.
b.) Do you want a convenient "all in one unit" with DSP? If so, buy Crown XTI
c.) Do you want to save a little cash and/or trade the convenience of "all in one" for a system that has potentially a little more flexibility? Go Behringer
d.) Do you want have more than one amp in case of a failure at a gig but can't afford two XTI? Go Behringer.

The only other option you may want to remotely consider are the Peavey IPR series. I personally have had zero experience with them and the DSP is limited BUT from some reviews I have read they are a great bang for the buck and weigh 7lbs.

Like the others in this thread have mentioned, all of these amps including the Peavey have suffered from early production issues but have since been sorted out.

Hope this helps.

[netwerks]

So, would not get out the max of my 3015LF´s, but rather close
//Robin

60v for 3015 is the maximum limit in the T48.

I would say that if you could get the amp to 50v you would be doing fine and have a safe barrier. As Bill has mentioned in the past, those 10v vs. the safety net is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Better safe than sorry in my book. I limit my T39 down <10v than the recommended max voltage, especially now the price of the Neo drivers.

[Dave Non-Zero]

Two epx4000 in a flight case is a very heavy box. You would appreciate the xtis more with every lift.

[bzb]

^^ this

I'm also considering the IPR series now since that damn 01V is so heavy... but I don't think they have a limiter, and they haven't been around long enough for me to trust em yet.

Right now I run XTi 2000 for most gigs, and I travel to everything. I do at least 2 gigs per week, generally with OT12 and a single T39. Both of my amps were purchased used, and I've used them since building the cabs around 2 years ago.

[LEVLHED]

I use 2 XTi4000's but I'm thinking about switching to IPR3000's
I don't really need the DSP and I think I would really like the reduced weight....

[Robin_Larsson]

Thanks guys!

Interesting to see that people want to switch to Peavey from Crown! But, yeah the IPR series are lighter!
But are the bigger ones available yet, or soon? The iNuke series from Behringer looks interesting also, but that stupid name should cost them alot of sales

I do need the DSP, and I like the solution of having it integrated in the amp so.

[netwerks]

Thanks guys!

Interesting to see that people want to switch to Peavey from Crown! But, yeah the IPR series are lighter!
But are the bigger ones available yet, or soon? The iNuke series from Behringer looks interesting also, but that stupid name should cost them alot of sales

I do need the DSP, and I like the solution of having it integrated in the amp so.

Buy the XTI already then!!!

[Robin_Larsson]

I know I probably should yeah! But the IPR and iNukes are cheaper, but that doesnt help much if there not available..

But to summarize, you guys like the XTi´s, and havent had any real problems with them?
I asked my main supplier, and got to know that they had sold about 200 XTi 4000, and something like 7-8 had been back for service, but non since 2008, rather good I´d say!