Would those in the know, please post their technique for building with thin panels and alternative fasteners.
For example, 1/4" baltic birch bracing and brads. Is a brad nailer required? What are best practices for holding thin panels in place while the PL cures?
Tips for 1/4" and 3/8" Thin Panel Construction
Not sure what you mean by '1/4" bracing'?
At any rate, it's tough to drive anything edgewise into a piece of 1/4". 3/8" is doable, but you must hold the gun straight.
I use a small compressor in my basement shop and a brad nailer. It takes from 5/8"-2 1/4" brads. I load depending on what I'm doing. The deepest penetration without protruding is what I go for, within reason.
If the piece to be attached is being bent, brads aren't going to hold it well unless you prebend. In those cases I use screws, like on a DR throat, back, or sheath. Enough screws at each to keep it flat and and a couple of brads in the middle are plenty.
Brads by themselves will hold most pieces in place firmly enough to continue with the build. I've built many cabinets and other items with just brads and glue. 3/4", 1/2", 3/8" edgewise or flat, and 1/4" or 1/8" on the flat.
You don't necessarily have to use a pneumatic gun, but it sure helps. You can get brad drivers where you load and manually push them in one at a time, but it's totally inefficient. The one huge advantage to a gun is the fact that you can hold the workpiece in place with one hand while you pop in a few brads with the other. This eliminates quite a bit of clamping that you'd have to do to drive screws, which is more of a two-handed operation.
If a guy is building one or two cabs for his own use, a brad nailer isn't a very good return on investment. If he's building a bunch though, the setup is worth it's weight in gold.
At any rate, it's tough to drive anything edgewise into a piece of 1/4". 3/8" is doable, but you must hold the gun straight.
I use a small compressor in my basement shop and a brad nailer. It takes from 5/8"-2 1/4" brads. I load depending on what I'm doing. The deepest penetration without protruding is what I go for, within reason.
If the piece to be attached is being bent, brads aren't going to hold it well unless you prebend. In those cases I use screws, like on a DR throat, back, or sheath. Enough screws at each to keep it flat and and a couple of brads in the middle are plenty.
Brads by themselves will hold most pieces in place firmly enough to continue with the build. I've built many cabinets and other items with just brads and glue. 3/4", 1/2", 3/8" edgewise or flat, and 1/4" or 1/8" on the flat.
You don't necessarily have to use a pneumatic gun, but it sure helps. You can get brad drivers where you load and manually push them in one at a time, but it's totally inefficient. The one huge advantage to a gun is the fact that you can hold the workpiece in place with one hand while you pop in a few brads with the other. This eliminates quite a bit of clamping that you'd have to do to drive screws, which is more of a two-handed operation.
If a guy is building one or two cabs for his own use, a brad nailer isn't a very good return on investment. If he's building a bunch though, the setup is worth it's weight in gold.
One other thing, if you're thinking of going this route, get a compressor that will put out a reasonable CFM at the pressures you need, and will pull multiple duty such as a spray gun.
Not advocating Harbor Freight, but this would be a good example of size. It's big enough to run a splatter gun for spraying DuraTex, and small enough to tote around:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=90385
If you get one with too little CFM, it won't handle spraying.
I'd advise against their cheap $19.95 nailer. Craftsman makes one in the $80 range that will last a long time. I've had mine for years, and it's worked faithfully for some major projects, including a kitchen. Make sure it will handle down to 5/8" brads so you can flat nail 3/8"-3/8" without protruding. If you angle the gun, you can also flat nail 1/4"-3/8" and it won't poke through.
Not advocating Harbor Freight, but this would be a good example of size. It's big enough to run a splatter gun for spraying DuraTex, and small enough to tote around:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=90385
If you get one with too little CFM, it won't handle spraying.
I'd advise against their cheap $19.95 nailer. Craftsman makes one in the $80 range that will last a long time. I've had mine for years, and it's worked faithfully for some major projects, including a kitchen. Make sure it will handle down to 5/8" brads so you can flat nail 3/8"-3/8" without protruding. If you angle the gun, you can also flat nail 1/4"-3/8" and it won't poke through.
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Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
I now use 1/4 bracing exclusively. I've got my router table on a wing of my table saw, so when I cut a panel it goes from saw to router to dado the grooves, and the extra time require is like 30 seconds per panel. For the most part brads aren't required, but when they are one is sufficient to hold the brace whicle the adhesive sets, and the 1/4 doesn't split with the lateral support of the dado groove. I wouldn't go 1/4 without dados, it's too floppy, but 3/8 is OK. 1/4 is really sweet with a holesaw, it takes a quarter the work cutting holes as 1/2.
I use the brad nailer/stapler for most everything. With 1/4" small crown staples are required, brads will shoot right through it. You can get away with staples on 1/8 sheathing on the throat horns but you have to be very precise with the gun pressure or they shoot right through. Staples are NG on 1/8 DR backs, there's so much pressure when the backs are bent that the staples rip right through.
I use the brad nailer/stapler for most everything. With 1/4" small crown staples are required, brads will shoot right through it. You can get away with staples on 1/8 sheathing on the throat horns but you have to be very precise with the gun pressure or they shoot right through. Staples are NG on 1/8 DR backs, there's so much pressure when the backs are bent that the staples rip right through.
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Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
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mjformeller
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:51 pm
How about locating that 1/4" ply using small quarter round and basicly build a dado groove onto, instead of into, the side sheet. Could thinner ply be used on the sides this way? 
I just put in panel 7 on my T39 build this morning, and am using 1/4" bracing with dados. So far it has been working great. I made a jig for cutting the dados with my hand-held router that makes cutting the dados pretty quick (not 30 seconds like Bill's router table...but no more than 3 min. per panel). Just added it to an earlier thread on dadoing, for what it's worth...
http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 4504#14504
I don't have a brad gun, but I have not had to use any kind of fastener so far unless you count clamps and liberal amounts of PL. I never do more than one panel per day, but at that pace, PL and the dado seem to hold the braces in place fine without fasteners.
I have to say, that I really like this approach. The fact that you are pushing the brace into a groove filled with PL makes the approach very forgiving. Plus it's fast, and the braces are really light. Before I started I worried that it might not be strong enough. No need to worry about that, though...the more the cab comes together the more I can see how strong it is going to be.
http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 4504#14504
I don't have a brad gun, but I have not had to use any kind of fastener so far unless you count clamps and liberal amounts of PL. I never do more than one panel per day, but at that pace, PL and the dado seem to hold the braces in place fine without fasteners.
I have to say, that I really like this approach. The fact that you are pushing the brace into a groove filled with PL makes the approach very forgiving. Plus it's fast, and the braces are really light. Before I started I worried that it might not be strong enough. No need to worry about that, though...the more the cab comes together the more I can see how strong it is going to be.
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Harley
- Posts: 5758
- Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:45 pm
- Location: Christchurch, New Zealand - Authorised BFM Cab Builder
Tim Ard wrote:If a guy is building one or two cabs for his own use, a brad nailer isn't a very good return on investment. .
Disagree....a brad nailer is a must even for one cabinet...after all one has the perfect excuse here to justify it to the War Office. After the project you end up with that most essential of tools that every man should really be born with in his left hand - a pneumatic brad nailer
Harley
Semi-retired: Former Australia and New Zealand Authorised BFM cab builder.
You guys haven't figured out how to get new tools in the house yet? Do this:Harley wrote:Tim Ard wrote:If a guy is building one or two cabs for his own use, a brad nailer isn't a very good return on investment. .
Disagree....a brad nailer is a must even for one cabinet...after all one has the perfect excuse here to justify it to the War Office. After the project you end up with that most essential of tools that every man should really be born with in his left hand - a pneumatic brad nailer
Harley
Buy a nailer and a compressor. Make it look like a lamp. Bring it home and show it to your wife. She'll say:
"That's the ugliest lamp I've ever seen in my life, put it in the shop."
Problem solved.
Or plan B:
Buy what you want, give it to a friend. Have him bring it over in front of your wife and say: "Thanks, buddy, for letting me borrow this stuff."
Remember, there hasn't been a war office yet that could keep track of it's supply officers....
That is one I have to remember. Not that I could ever pull it off, but that one is GOOD!Tim Ard wrote:
Or plan B:
Buy what you want, give it to a friend. Have him bring it over in front of your wife and say: "Thanks, buddy, for letting me borrow this stuff."
Remember, there hasn't been a war office yet that could keep track of it's supply officers....
Still at the "more questions than sawdust" stage, but learning something every day I visit...