Plywood choice, help needed... from France

[Bbr6704]

Hi everyone,

I begin to understand the word odissey, because here in France, finding plywood that doesn't come from china is nearly a quest!

But i think i've found a shop that seems to have some choice. and i'm now lost...

So they have some finnforest birch plywood, 1/2", 9 plys, but over 120$ the huge sheet. they don't sell smalller than that.

for more info : http://www.finnforest.com/products/plyw ... fault.aspx

They also have french okume, that come from africa but is said to be glued in france (but it could be africa...). they said me it was a better quality than asian. It's told to be a good plywood from them.

They can have a mix between okume and poplar,

or only poplar plywood.

here's the brand website : http://www.rougier.fr/301.html but it doesen't seem to have any datasheet on the wood.

all of tham are cheaper (25% less, about 60$ the sheet)

Is ther a plywood better than the other? one to avoid?

I'm just lost with all this kind of plys...

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Poplar is your best option, provided it has the minimum 5 equal thickness plies.

[el_ingeniero]

What he said about the poplar: it should act about the same as what we call "Arauco" here.

As far as the other wood that you mentioned:

FinnForest birch ply should be superb, it's quality should be even better than the Russian product we have here.

Okoume is used for boat building because it's flyweight. It's not very dense at all. Its Young's modulus, at best is 1/4th that of Birch ply. It's going to suck for speakers. I'd be worried about it shaking apart. Avoid it.

And to conclude: I was poking about the second link you gave, and came across this page: http://www.rougier.fr/les_standards.html. If I'm reading it right, they sell plywood made from Radiata Pine ("Pin Radiata"), which is the species used for what we call "Arauco" here in the USA. Use that in 12mm with the requisite 5 even layers, and you should be fine.

You could also see if they can supply high quality (no knots, no voids) plywood made from "Meranti" throughout. That's the same species as "Lauan" here, but we can't use it because it's Chinese junk (full of voids). But it would make excellent cabinets if it's done right, it's 30 to 100% stiffer than Baltic Birch.

[Bbr6704]

So poplar should be better tahn "pin radiata" or "arauco"?

In order of options :

Best : finnforest, then poplar, then pin radiata or arauco, and to avoid, the worst, the okoumé...

Am I right?

Of course, i'll check the number and the tifckness of plys.

[el_ingeniero]

So poplar should be better tahn "pin radiata" or "arauco"?

In order of options :

Best : finnforest, then poplar, then pin radiata or arauco, and to avoid, the worst, the okoumé...

Am I right?

Of course, i'll check the number and the tifckness of plys.

Finnforest will be awesome.

Radiata and Poplar should work out about the same. The numbers I have for Poplar are for American Yellow Poplar; the Poplar available in France is likely to be Italian Poplar, which is widely used in Europe for construction, so the product will be very consistent. The only issue I have with Poplar is that it has many small knots. In that respect, I like "pin radiata" more thant Poplar: smaller chance of voids. But if you get A or B grade (furniture quality) ply, or sort though a pile of plywood in a lumberyard (can you do that in France?), you should be fine with either species.

[Bbr6704]

Hi, i'm back again...

I phoned a wood seller today, he told me the poplar was not that good, compared to the bich (he meaned a really noticeable, important differrence in terms of resistence (quality?)) Does this meens it's not good enough to build a good cab, or did the seller just wanted to sell me the most expensive product?

I can't go there easilly, because of my job (they close to early, and don't open on saturday...)

But I could find some spruce plywood (7 plys in 12mm), in another place. This plywood seems to come from europe, I don't know it's price yet, but could it be a good option?

for the spruce plywood :

http://www.wisaplywood.com/upm/internet ... wisaspruce

They may have some birch plywood, in a 4*8foot sheet:

http://www.wisaplywood.com/upm/internet ... =wisabirch


I may boubt too much, about the plywood choice, but to my point, it may be as important as the speaker, so... But, as Bills says, i would like not to "waste money on high-priced premium grades"...

thanks again.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Poplar is not as stiff as birch, but that's not a concern with our cabs. It also dents more easily, but with a carpet or hard urethane finish that's also not a major concern. Poplar is much lighter than birch, which is a positive. Harley builds his cabs from Italian Poplar with no issues. I'd use it if I could get it, but it's not available to me.

[Bbr6704]

Hi again, my last question about wood, I hope...

I can get some spruce (12mm/9plys) for approx 50$ the 4*8 sheet, or poplar (12mm/9plys), approx 70$ the sheet.

Both seem to be good products :

For spruce : http://www.wisaplywood.com/upm/internet ... wisaspruce

For poplar : http://www.plysorol.fr/pages/en/peuply_102_1021.html

the price differrence is not so important, but still noticeable...

So i'd rather take spruce, as bill quotes it in the wood options...

But will it be ok?

Is the poplar worth the price for the use of a cab? or is spruce good enough to build a good cab? I mean i don't need the best, but i'd like to do something good...

Thanx again!

[netwerks]

Spruce is very light and soft. Even lighter than pine. To me the lighter the better but hey, i'm an old whimpy guy who doesn't like anything heavy..

It will work fine just make sure it has 9 even plys.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It will work fine just make sure it has 9 even plys.

My concern is that both appear to have thin outer plies. That's OK if you fasten with screws and leave them in.
Spruce has a bold grain that's very difficult to hide with anything but carpet. Poplar would be my choice with any other finish.

[mcmarte]

actually i had some problem choosing the plywood for my JACK 12 too.
in italy im able to find easily italian poplar 12mm (aprox half inch) plywood (8.2 x 6.1 foot 45€ sheet)
the russian birch plywood (the most expansive and suggested me from the carpenter for speaker cabinets) (5x5 foot 25€ sheet)
and the last one "phenolic plywood" that's really really cheap (8 x 4 foot 25 € foot) and they told me is generally used in building site, but it don't look so different compared to poplar!
actually all the three types have not less then seven plies (or more).
Im going to paint the final cab with black latex and Warnex (an european Duratex clone...well..actually kind of eheheh).
what do you suggest ??

[AntonZ]

I don't know about phenolic plywood, no idea what it is. If it is flat, has little or no voids and no paper thin outer veneer layer, you could give it a try. Otherwise there are good points for quality birch ply and for poplar, as others have pointed out already. Good birch is a joy to work with, the smooth surface is good for paint finish (e.g. Duratex, Warnex). Poplar is not as smooth, a bit rougher, so takes more work to obtain a neat paint finish. Not important if you use "rat fur". Poplar is quite a bit lighter than birch, no issue while building, can be important for you in actual use.

Make absolutely sure about the thin outer veneer - it can be so thin you cannot tell it's there unless you scratch the edge with your nail. It is not what you want for cab building - the thin outer veneer looks nice but tends to come loose, making your cabs fall apart. To avoid at all cost.

Personally, I prefer good birch if I can find it, otherwise poplar. In your case, since the phenolic is available and affordable, I'd say buy one sheet phenolic plus one sheet poplar for your first project, see which one you prefer to work with.

[mcmarte]

I'm pretty much sure that this phenolic it's how in usa they call Arauco plywood.
phenolic is just the glue used inside.
here a pic http://www.costruiamoinsieme.ch/img_prodotti/54_400.jpg but the one i found has bigger plies.
about birch i could touch with my hands how...good to work it's and i worked many times with poplar (yes Anton you're 100% right it take a bit to have a good texture if you want paint it because that wood absorb a lot of paint).
I'll follow your advice...
I will buy a sheet and see what happen..

[Harley]

My concern is that both appear to have thin outer plies. That's OK if you fasten with screws and leave them in.

Italian Poplar comes with thinner outer plies, but they are not paper thin. That's why I leave screws in where they don't interfere with rotating machinery and angle nail.

[mcmarte]

Italian Poplar comes with thinner outer plies, but they are not paper thin. That's why I leave screws in where they don't interfere with rotating machinery and angle nail.

yeah but it's a bit hard to leave screws in if you want round edges with a miller.
anyway i think i will go for the birch or the phenolic.