Apparently I'm spoiled...

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SoundInMotionDJ
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Apparently I'm spoiled...

#1 Post by SoundInMotionDJ »

Over last weekend, I was invited to run sound for a dance competition. There was another DJ with sound gear who was working the event...so in the interest of inclusion and cooperation, I agreed to split the work with them. I provided the equipment for the "booth" and he provided the PA cabinets.

I brought a dual CD player, 5 channel DJ mixer, and wireless mics. I ran all that into a Yamaha 01v. I provided Aux outputs to the video guy, and got a return to have sound with videos (e.g. shorts clips of the winners during awards). I ran the 01v master output to a DEQ/DCX, and from there to the PA cabinets.

The PA was powered Mackie products. The tops were SRM-450's, and the subs were SWA-1501's. The subs were center clustered under the stage, and wall loaded. The tops were distributed across the long edge of the room at about 20ft intervals. The tops were set to "cross fire" in a "XX" pattern across the front of the room. This was done to help minimize the slap back off the opposite wall. The subs got a "sum'd" signal, the tops were running stereo in a "L R L R" pattern across the room.

The setup on Friday evening was rushed. We were not able to get into the room until 3pm, and doors opened at 6pm. I setup the crossover at 90Hz/100Hz. The sound was OK with the volume low...but was nothing but "boom" and "mud" at war volume. The highs from the tops were *very* harsh. The vocal range was flat and really buried in the mix. I adjusted the subs as far down as I could in the mix...but eventually ran out of control on the DCX to bring the subs down.

On Saturday morning, I readjusted the whole system. The tops got 70Hz to 15kHz. The subs got 40-70Hz. The sub signal was -20dB relative to the tops. I used the EQ to put in a "frownie face" to boost the mids and lower the lows and highs. The edges of the frown were -8dB from the middle. At this point, the sound was "better" but for my standard was still less than desirable. By limiting the frequencies that went to the subs, most of the "mud" was cleaned up, but the subs were still clearly "one note wonders" with a good "boom" at 60Hz and not much else.

Overall, my impression is that I am incredibility spoiled by my BFM system.

DR200's completely outclass the Mackie tops in every possible way. The clarity is soooooo much better that it is almost impossible to describe the difference. The horizontal dispersion is much better. The vertical dispersion is much better.

The T39's completely outclass the Mackie subs. The folded horn design eliminates the higher order harmonics. This gives the bass actual clarity, instead of just a big "boom."

It's only been a few years...but I just can not go back to using conventional direct radiating speakers. Fortunately, I do not have to. :mrgreen:

--Stan Graves
10 T39S + 10 DR200 + 1 T48

Strapping Young Stu
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Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#2 Post by Strapping Young Stu »

I don't think so.

Those Mackie boxes really are quite horrible, and just as a testament to the quality of sound man you are, you were able to tell what was wrong but really had to struggle to get close to putting it right.

A good speaker box - especially one that is supposed to have all its processing on board, ought to sound good from the start and just get better with tweaking.

In this case its clearly a system that sounds at best OK with much tweaking and awful without.

If this isn't enough of a review to encourage anyone NOT to buy those cabs I will second it....

AVOID! AVOID! AVOID!

But spoilt? No, there are plenty of good sounding speakers out there that will match up to BFM, but in this instance you got lumped with the c**p.

Stu

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Zack Brock
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Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#3 Post by Zack Brock »

Strapping Young Stu wrote:
But spoilt? No, there are plenty of good sounding speakers out there that will match up to BFM, but in this instance you got lumped with the c**p.
Like what? No, really, I'm curious as to what you would state matches up to BFM.
Zack Brock
Authorized Builder, Northeast Florida (Greater Jacksonville Area)
WavePulse Acoustics | zackbrock@macpulse.com | http://www.bestbasscabs.com/

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Harley
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand - Authorised BFM Cab Builder

Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#4 Post by Harley »

Zack Brock wrote:Like what? No, really, I'm curious as to what you would state matches up to BFM.
Same here - for the price, size, efficiency and weight....
ImageSemi-retired: Former Australia and New Zealand Authorised BFM cab builder.

paul_ulrix
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Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:43 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#5 Post by paul_ulrix »

i had one of those mackie active speakers lying before as a monitor last saturday, those are horrible idd, awful harsch treble, after one song i asked the p.a. guy to turn it off.

the front p.a. wasn't that hot either, it was a hk actor set, 4 x 15 inch subs 2 x 12 inch + tweeter tops and it was just not enough for place that was about 10 meter wide and 25 long.

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SoundInMotionDJ
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Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#6 Post by SoundInMotionDJ »

The really frustrating part is that I have had 4 people tell me they thought the Mackie system sounded BETTER than the BFM system I used at my even in January.

:shock: :? :roll:

Oh well...maybe it's time to educate them on how to really listen to music.
10 T39S + 10 DR200 + 1 T48

bzb
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Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#7 Post by bzb »

SoundInMotionDJ wrote:The really frustrating part is that I have had 4 people tell me they thought the Mackie system sounded BETTER than the BFM system I used at my even in January.

:shock: :? :roll:

Oh well...maybe it's time to educate them on how to really listen to music.
I had friends tell me they couldn't really tell the difference. So I A/B'd for them using my JBL Eons and B-52 Act18X setup. They know the difference now ;) Unfortunately I only kept the Eons out of my old setup... I've sold off every last bit of my old PA systems on Craigslist :shock:
Bobby Shively
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Traktor S4 - Vestax VCI-100 - TTX - MOTU Ultralite - Yamaha 01V

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T39 13" BP102, 24" 3012LF - AT - OT12 2512 - SLA Pro - T24 - Jack 10
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djwoo
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Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#8 Post by djwoo »

And you don't need go so far, the OT12 is superior in all senses compared to a Mackie tops.
Even my Omni 10.5 are!!!
¿TEQUILA?...

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Zack Brock
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Re: Apparently I'm spoiled...

#9 Post by Zack Brock »

djwoo wrote:And you don't need go so far, the OT12 is superior in all senses compared to a Mackie tops.
Even my Omni 10.5 are!!!
+1 - Same with a Jack 10 - outperforms a Mackie SRM450 by a mile and sounds better doing it.
Zack Brock
Authorized Builder, Northeast Florida (Greater Jacksonville Area)
WavePulse Acoustics | zackbrock@macpulse.com | http://www.bestbasscabs.com/

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