XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF)

EQ guys are using on their cabs/systems. A good starting place if you don't have your own RTA.
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netwerks
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XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF)

#1 Post by netwerks »

Hi-

I've just finished building a pair of OT12 3012HO and Melded Piezo loaded and a pair of T39 x 22" 3012LF loaded.

I'm getting ready to fire these bad boys up this week.

My goal here is to run the tops and bottoms from seperate channels (bottoms in parallel on one, tops on other) on a Crown XTI 4000.

Anyone have some standard presets for EQ and limiter using Crown DSP for this config?

Right now I have xover set to 46hz-100hz LR on the subs and 100hz-14k LR on the tops.

I have no clue on EQ or limiter settings.

Here are the amp ratings @ 1k for Crown XTI:
Stereo 8 Ohm 650w
Stereo 4 Ohm 1200w
Stereo 2 Ohm 1600w

Any advice would be great. I don't want to blow any drivers and certainly would like to leverage any tips on EQ. :)

Thanks!
Last edited by netwerks on Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Smit
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#2 Post by Tom Smit »

All I can suggest is to look at the SPL charts in "SPL Charts" and "Everything Else". Where the line goes up on the chart, pull the line down on the screen by the same amount of db. And maybe bring all the points to 95 db.
Oh, and RTM.
TomS

sine143
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#3 Post by sine143 »

I know that monomer crosses his T39s over at 90hz, with a 48db LR filter. This fights the rising response of the titans, makes them a bit more tame. I think he crosses the Otops over at 100hz, with a 48 dB filter. Otops 12s are not too good for under 100 hz.

The 4000 is kind of a beast. If you are running without external limiting, I would run it with the 3 db internal limiter. I dont think this is a "Brickwall" limiter, but it will at least stop someone from turning it up to high. If you are going to have a laptop, run it in mono sum mode, make adjustments to each channel with the attenuators in the system architect. If not, just run it normally. As far as Eq goes... There are a couple threads about xti dsp settings. Right now I have nothing done, but I plan to change that.
Built:
2x Tuba 30s delta12lf loaded (gone)
4x Otop12 d2512 loaded
8x t48s (18, 18, 24, 24, 30, 30) 3015lf loaded
2x AT (1 mcm, 1 gto 804)
2x SLA Pro (dayton pa6, 6 goldwood piezo loaded)
1x bastard XF208

2x OT212 (delta pro 450a loaded, eminence psd)

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jcmbowman
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#4 Post by jcmbowman »

OK -

The T39 raises the effective impedance of the 3012LF from 8 ohms to 10 ohms - and the 3012LF is rated for 450 watts. So on the subwoofer side of the amp you won't want to exceed 67 volts - but to be on the safe side I'd keep it to 60 volts. Follow the instructions you can find elsewhere on the forum for using a voltmeter to set the limiter. Since you're stuck with limiter settings of -3dB, -6dB, and -12dB, I'd probably err on the side of caution and go with the -3dB, which -should- keep the amp limited to 51 volts on that channel, but never trust the specs - use a voltmeter and find out for yourself what -your- amp does. Without the limiter engaged that amp is capable of 72 volts (at least on paper), which is more than enough to cook your drivers, regardless of the additional impedance from horn-loading.

For the OT12 side of the amp you're looking at the 3012HO - 400 watts at 8 ohms, or roughly 56 volts. Again, test it out with a voltmeter using a frequency within the passband of the speaker, but I'd hazard a guess you'll probably wind up using the -3dB setting on the limiter.


As far as the crossover, you've got the HPF for the subs right where it should be - 45hz is what bill says for 2 or less T39s, 46hz is a little extra padding on the safe side. Although I've never used an omnitop, I've heard several forum members complain that they tend to run out of "oomph" in the low end when they're crossed to low, so I'd think about crossing between the cabinets at around 120hz instead of 100hz. The T39s should be fine that high. Of course, the crossover point between the cabinets is entirely up to you, and I've always found that it's better to play around with that and use your ears to find the sweet spot.


For EQing, try not to do too much EQing in the amp's processor - don't eq to taste, just EQ some of the idiosyncrasies of the cabinets out. Here's a chart of your two cabinets below:

(Note that the T39 is the wrong width, and the OT12 doesn't say which driver it's got... so these charts aren't perfect)

The first, most obvious correction you'll want to make is to EQ the T39 to tame some of that rising response out of it. If you set a PEQ at the PDF frequency with a fairly wide Q and bring it down 6db or so that should bring it back in line with the OT12s. (alternatively, you could just adjust the LPF downward a bit, say, to 110hz, and then set the PEQ to -3dB or so. It might actually sound better that way as you'll get less of the highs in the subs.) Other than that there's some adjustments to do to the OT12, especially in the high end, but in order to do that properly you'd really need a good graph of what -your- cabinets are doing. If your response chart looks anything like the above, a good starting point would be a PEQ at 8 khz with a medium width set to -3dB or so.


You asked for my input, so here you go. :)

JOHNb
Low End Junkie for over 20 years.

4 DR250s
4 Tuba36s @ 30" wide
2 ATs
...and a very serious addiction to the smell of BB sawdust and curing PL.

sine143
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#5 Post by sine143 »

:clap:

looks a lot better than my post =P
Built:
2x Tuba 30s delta12lf loaded (gone)
4x Otop12 d2512 loaded
8x t48s (18, 18, 24, 24, 30, 30) 3015lf loaded
2x AT (1 mcm, 1 gto 804)
2x SLA Pro (dayton pa6, 6 goldwood piezo loaded)
1x bastard XF208

2x OT212 (delta pro 450a loaded, eminence psd)

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netwerks
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#6 Post by netwerks »

Awesome help. I need to get my hands on a decent multimeter this week. :)

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netwerks
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#7 Post by netwerks »

OK

I got the amp and a fluke 115 multimeter.

Ran a 1k tone to the amp from audacity.

If I turn the xti 4000 up to the next to last notch with no speaers attached I get a reading of 102 v on both channels.

Does this sound right?

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netwerks
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#8 Post by netwerks »

Using a 1khz sine wave and voltage going into the amp i get 2.944v on pins 1&3 and 1.478 on pins 1&2

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Haysus
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#9 Post by Haysus »

I run 4 DR 200's & up to 3 T39's off my xti4000. I would rather not but I can't afford more power yet. I have -3 for the subs and -6db for the tops on the internal limiter. I pass @ 45 hz & cross @ 90hz both with 48 LR. Tops are crossed @ 125hz with 48LR filter. I stay out of the red and have never had any issues with driver or amps. I do run the amp fans at full speed the entire show. I do know this is not ideal but it really works for me and I do not push my system very hard. I do not eq the low end and the top side I use a general smooth eq to taste and eq the rest FOH per individual room. Do get a good voltmeter and check your gain structure and you should be good . Like everyone else has said there are know brick walls but I have been gigging this way for a full year with NO problems. I hope this helps.

4 20" T39(built)
2 WH8(built)
3 WH10(own)
4 DR200(own)

1 Jack 12(built)
SAC 24 Channel Mixer
SAW STUDIO Recording

sine143
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#10 Post by sine143 »

^^^ that sounds fine to me....

I assume the drs horn path adds *a little* impedence.... maybe?

Either way, the 4000 can handle 2 ohms, and 1600 watts at 2 ohms means 400 to each dr... which is LOUD. the -3 limiter would cut that down to 200 watts to each at max, and the -6 cuts that down to 100. Still loud as all get out I bet.


Three t39s is like... a 4 ohm load? about? maybe a 3? at full power the subs are probably seeing... 200ish each at that limiter setting, which is still a good amount of power!
Last edited by sine143 on Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Built:
2x Tuba 30s delta12lf loaded (gone)
4x Otop12 d2512 loaded
8x t48s (18, 18, 24, 24, 30, 30) 3015lf loaded
2x AT (1 mcm, 1 gto 804)
2x SLA Pro (dayton pa6, 6 goldwood piezo loaded)
1x bastard XF208

2x OT212 (delta pro 450a loaded, eminence psd)

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netwerks
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#11 Post by netwerks »

sine143 wrote:^^^ that sounds fine to me....

I assume the drs horn path adds *a little* impedence.... maybe?

Either way, the 2000 can handle 2 ohms, and 1600 watts at 2 ohms means 400 to each dr... which is LOUD. the -3 limiter would cut that down to 200 watts to each at max, and the -6 cuts that down to 100. Still loud as all get out I bet.


Three t39s is like... a 4 ohm load? about? maybe a 3? at full power the subs are probably seeing... 200ish each at that limiter setting, which is still a good amount of power!
So every -3db cuts power in half right?

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netwerks
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#12 Post by netwerks »

So I tested my line signal. It's running 1k sine wave at 1.4v into the amp, output on both sides is 100v.

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netwerks
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Re: XTI 4000 Presets? (OT12 3012HO Melded + T39 x 22" 3012LF

#13 Post by netwerks »

jcmbowman wrote: Without the limiter engaged that amp is capable of 72 volts (at least on paper), which is more than enough to cook your drivers, regardless of the additional impedance from horn-loading.
JOHNb
OK-

I have -10 coming out of my laptop soundcard and got that to .237v which is roughly -10dBu based on the calculator I am using. Laptop is at full gain.

I plugged that into my samson sconvert to change the signal from -10dbv to +4dBu. No input dial, and the output dial is about 2/3 the way up.

On the output of the Sconvert I measured 1.4v across pins 2&3 with pins 1=ground 2=hot 3=cold. (hopefully these are the right pins to be measuring on)

I turn the crown xti4000 all the way up and I get 77.3v at the output of the amp (using fluke 115 trueRMS) however I am not seeing a clip light.

Does this sound right for calibration purposes?

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