Powering your BFM rig....

[ben.in.salzburg]

Years to go until I can really claim to have a reputation. Am doing my best do provide good sound, and not doing gigs I feel unready for.

I have had one band with a technical rider stating 'keine selbstgebaute Boxen' i.e. no self-built cabinets. I guess they had negative experiences elsewhere.

In the end I was able to persuade them to use my BFM system on the condition I provided a had to offer a moneyback guarantee in cash of dissatisfaction.

The band and fans (and event staff) were very pleased with the sound of the Omnitops and Tubas. Needless to say, I got to keep the cash

The band still uses the same rider, so I guess I am the exception to their rule.

Ben

[Turntablist]

That's quite some testament to Bill's designs Ben!

Out of curiosity, what speakers were they using earlier?

[Landl.livesound]

Are the I-tech amplifiers affordable for the weekend warrior type?

I suspect many would be put off by the cost. Thermal limiters which can control the temperature of the voice coil are entirely new to me, but sound fantastic.
If money were no option, the I-tech amplifiers look to be an excellent option.

My amps are pro, but economical, no more than 350 a piece. They have clipping protecting, low pass and thermal protection.
Therefore if I want limiting, working with a separate limiter is the only economical option for part-time sound guys like myself. And I do want limiting for when DJs get to play with my gear.

Re. Meyer sound - Are BFM designs competing with Meyer sound? I suspect they could, sound quality-wise. However, the DIY aspect may not satisfy the technical riders for larger events. I often wonder how best to go about making the BFM meet rider requirements of bands and agents... Sorry to go off on a tangent!

Ben

Hey Ben,

I would say it all comes down to perspective. Some would say a $500 amp is expensive, while others would say a $500 amp is cheap. I would consider myself more of the weekend warrior sound company provider (Most of the time although there is a good amount of other stuff thrown in).

But to be able to get the iTech's ranging from $1000-$2000 used at up to 4000 watts per channel and under 30lbs is a pretty good deal. Although it makes sense, since power has really come down in price.

The other big thing is it is very hard to find any external limiter that does close to what the thermal limiter does in the iTech, therefore why they are though of as some of the best, non-proprietary, limiters in the industry. (I think you were confused by what we meant by thermal limiter. We aren't talking a thermal limiter to protect the amp, like most cheaper amps will have too. We are talking about a thermal limiter to keep the long term power under a certain level to keep the VC from heating up to much.)


Re: Meyer, I would say BFM is not competing with Meyer at all. Bill has found a nice niche here for people looking for good sound on a small budget. And a way to do that is DIY. As John mentioned, there are trade-offs when Bill is designing value designs. The big niche that Bill fills with his designs are DJ's, bands providing there own PA, and small sound companies. Not to say that there aren't some small-mid sound companies using BFM designs but I would say that isn't his main niche market. So because of this Bill can make design choices, and choose to push certain things like he decides to do, since this is a "business" for him.


And the comment of the riders is correct, unfortunately DIY won't be considered on most B-level acts and above (Maybe even some C-level acts). But that's how the live sound industry goes. Maybe if Bill is able to expand and do what Clair did with their DIY designs then he would become acceptable, but Bill doesn't seem to be focused on that market from what I've seen.

But to sum, I would personally say the used iTech's are a great deal. It I hadn't already purchased QSC I might have went with IT6000 or IT8000 on subs instead of the PL380 I have now. (The PL380 is a great deal as well now and has been doing great in some sub powering testing and benching lately.)

So is an $1200 iTech out of the price range for most DJ's, bands, and small sound companies possibly, but are they worth saving up for, yes. Remember you get what you pay for in audio.


Take Care!
Phil

[Zack Brock]

I have had one band with a technical rider stating 'keine selbstgebaute Boxen' i.e. no self-built cabinets. I guess they had negative experiences elsewhere.

Sounds to me like you could get out of this by saying you purchased your cabinets from an authorized builder.

You could say, "I didn't build them, I purchased them!"



How is that any different than buying a few EAW KF850's? YOU didn't self-build them, but someone had to build them, and then you bought them. Amiright?

[Landl.livesound]

I have had one band with a technical rider stating 'keine selbstgebaute Boxen' i.e. no self-built cabinets. I guess they had negative experiences elsewhere.

Sounds to me like you could get out of this by saying you purchased your cabinets from an authorized builder.

You could say, "I didn't build them, I purchased them!"



How is that any different than buying a few EAW KF850's? YOU didn't self-build them, but someone had to build them, and then you bought them. Amiright?

The reason for riders is to try and have consistency (Consistently bad or consistently good? Although the KF850's have gotten much better sounding especially with the Gunness Focusing) But in all seriousness that is the big reason. And many riders go much further than saying no "home-brew boxes" for the fact that they don't know what to expect. It could be a great rig, or it could be someone throwing to a couple of home built or home designed boxes as well. That is the one set-up that proprietary rigs will always have is consistency. When you advance a show and the HE says they have a Vertec rig with v4 presets. As long as the rig is deployed correctly (Which is a big thing for line arrays) the BE will walk in having a good idea of what he is walking into and what baseline sounding system he will be walking into.

Same with a d&b system with their propriety processor, amps, etc.

Same reason for someone wanting a certain console at FOH/monitor beach. (Plus having everything on a USB driver for the digital consoles can be quite convenient for a tour.

But if you can get to the point where your system is as respected as Clair's became then your DIY designs might start showing up on the "Allowed systems" portion of a rider.


Take Care!
Phil

[coolhandjjl]

.......Admittedly, I run sound for some very demanding events. Maximum bass extension and output is critical, and when you throw in the fact that I'm generally doing sound reinforcement for a series of other DJs each of which may decide to twist that bass EQ knob on the DJ mixer all the way to +20dB at a moment's notice, a hard limiter is absolutely critical. In addition, the different tracks the DJs play may vary in bass level by as much as 30 or 40dB from track to track. Over-excursion is a real and constant danger, and it's only the appropriate usage of compression and limiting that allows me to step away from the board/amp rack for more than 30 seconds at a time without fearing that I might lose a significant chunk of change.......

How about inserting some sort of damage clause in your Terms & Conditions? When I used to rent gear, it was tested upon check out, and if it failed upon return, any damage was on my dime.

[jcmbowman]

.......Admittedly, I run sound for some very demanding events. Maximum bass extension and output is critical, and when you throw in the fact that I'm generally doing sound reinforcement for a series of other DJs each of which may decide to twist that bass EQ knob on the DJ mixer all the way to +20dB at a moment's notice, a hard limiter is absolutely critical. In addition, the different tracks the DJs play may vary in bass level by as much as 30 or 40dB from track to track. Over-excursion is a real and constant danger, and it's only the appropriate usage of compression and limiting that allows me to step away from the board/amp rack for more than 30 seconds at a time without fearing that I might lose a significant chunk of change.......

How about inserting some sort of damage clause in your Terms & Conditions? When I used to rent gear, it was tested upon check out, and if it failed upon return, any damage was on my dime.

Sadly, it doesn't really work that way with these kinds of events. If some moron dumps a pitcher of beer on my amp rack, I can and will get paid back for any damages resulting from that, but if I run a system that allows the DJs to blow speakers, it's my problem. The problem is that if I were to set things up to allow the headroom that is needed for a DJ mixer the baseline output level for people who know how to use a mixer would be somewhere around -30dB of maximum output. That just wouldn't work.

So instead I limit and compress. The DJs who know how to maintain a decent level sound good, the ones who don't wind up sounding compressed. Their loss - not mine.