Calling Driverack 260 Users...

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David Carter
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:20 am
Location: (East) Tennessee, USA

Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#1 Post by David Carter »

When I started having trouble with my DCX, I started looking around at other options. I did all the reading I could find on the various Driveracks and other DSP's from BBE and Peavey to name a few. The Driverack 260 seemed to get high marks and still be in the <$1K price range.

However, after lots of searching and reading, I soon reverted to the idea of getting a cheap 2-way crossover as an emergency backup and continuing to try to sort out the issues with my DCX just because it seemed like it was going to take at least 2x the price of a new DCX to get my hands on even a used DSP that didn't have issues of its own. I bought a 2-way Samson crossover about 7-10 days ago for $65 shipped, and all was well.

Then, as fate would have it, I happened upon a used Driverack 260 that was in its closing days on eBay and was still in the same price range as a new DCX. I watched for a few days and ended up snagging it for <$475 shipped in a true last-second display of eBay bidding prowess. :loler:

So, once it arrives tomorrow. I'm going to be the proud (and broke) owner of
  • one DCX2496,
  • one Samson S-2-way crossover, and
  • one Driverack 260
I've read all the docs I could find on the Driverack 260 already, but I'd love to hear from anyone that's using one to see if you've got any tips for a new user. I'm especially interested if anyone has experience with both it and the DCX. From what I can see in the docs, I like the interface better on the DCX, but the 260 seems to add some nice features that I would have to buy a DEQ to get, plus it should hopefully boost the reliability to another level. :fingers:
Dave

Built:
- Omni 10 (S2010 + piezo array)
- 2 x DR250 (DL II 2510 + melded array)
- 2 x Titan 39 (BP102 - 14"W)
- 2 x Titan 39 (3012LF - 20"W)
- 4 x DR200 (Delta Pro 8B + melded array)

WB
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 3:06 pm
Location: Ontario. Yours To Discover

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#2 Post by WB »

David Carter wrote: one Driverack 260
That's always been my plan B. Curious what your comparison will be once you've used it a bit.
I've always liked how user friendly the DCX/DEQ combo is, I wonder if the Driverack will be similar.
Tomorrow I'm going to stop procrastinating - WB

Landl.livesound

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#3 Post by Landl.livesound »

David Carter wrote:When I started having trouble with my DCX, I started looking around at other options. I did all the reading I could find on the various Driveracks and other DSP's from BBE and Peavey to name a few. The Driverack 260 seemed to get high marks and still be in the <$1K price range.

However, after lots of searching and reading, I soon reverted to the idea of getting a cheap 2-way crossover as an emergency backup and continuing to try to sort out the issues with my DCX just because it seemed like it was going to take at least 2x the price of a new DCX to get my hands on even a used DSP that didn't have issues of its own. I bought a 2-way Samson crossover about 7-10 days ago for $65 shipped, and all was well.

Then, as fate would have it, I happened upon a used Driverack 260 that was in its closing days on eBay and was still in the same price range as a new DCX. I watched for a few days and ended up snagging it for <$475 shipped in a true last-second display of eBay bidding prowess. :loler:

So, once it arrives tomorrow. I'm going to be the proud (and broke) owner of
  • one DCX2496,
  • one Samson S-2-way crossover, and
  • one Driverack 260
I've read all the docs I could find on the Driverack 260 already, but I'd love to hear from anyone that's using one to see if you've got any tips for a new user. I'm especially interested if anyone has experience with both it and the DCX. From what I can see in the docs, I like the interface better on the DCX, but the 260 seems to add some nice features that I would have to buy a DEQ to get, plus it should hopefully boost the reliability to another level. :fingers:
I agree the GUI is pretty clunky in the DR260 and why several reccomend the Sabine NAV360 as a slightly better bang-to-buck DSP in the same $700 new ballpark.


I was just gonna say the really nice thing about the DR260 is all the preset speaker configurations that you can load for it. But since you aren't using a commercial speakers with it that doesn't really matter! I am surprised you didn't look into the Sabine unit as well. But don't worry the DR260 will do all that you need but the NAV360 just seems to have some more useful features for the same money.

I am slightly confused by the DR260 manual. They state that it can have up to 7 Bell PEQ filters and then a Hi/Lo shelf on the pre-crossover section and then 2-3 PEQ filters on the post crossover section. So does that mean it has those 9 filters on the inputs so to say. And then the 3 PEQ filters on each output after the crossover section? Just curious, I know the NAV360 has 8 PEQ filters and a Hi/Lo shelf on each output/input. Just curious.





Take Care!
Phil
Last edited by Landl.livesound on Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Landl.livesound

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#4 Post by Landl.livesound »

WB wrote:
David Carter wrote: one Driverack 260
That's always been my plan B. Curious what your comparison will be once you've used it a bit.
I've always liked how user friendly the DCX/DEQ combo is, I wonder if the Driverack will be similar.
Hey WB,

As I mentioned above I would look into the Sabine NAV360 as well, as many feel it has a slightly better value to it for the same money as the DR260.

Take Care!

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David Carter
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Location: (East) Tennessee, USA

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#5 Post by David Carter »

Landl.livesound wrote:I am surprised you didn't look into the Sabine unit as well. But don't worry the DR260 will do all that you need but the NAV360 just seems to have some more useful features for the same money.
Actually I did read about it briefly, but paying that much money for anything was never a realistic consideration, and you can't find used Sabine's anywhere (which probably tells you how good they are). The only reason the 260 happened was because of the deal I got on it.
Dave

Built:
- Omni 10 (S2010 + piezo array)
- 2 x DR250 (DL II 2510 + melded array)
- 2 x Titan 39 (BP102 - 14"W)
- 2 x Titan 39 (3012LF - 20"W)
- 4 x DR200 (Delta Pro 8B + melded array)

jeffsco
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Sidney B.C.

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#6 Post by jeffsco »

David...I bought my Driverack 260 2 years ago and have never looked back. In regards to the EQ's your talking about. The input EQ's are configurable as either a 9 band PEQ or a 31 band graph. The output graph is a 4 Band PEQ. Go onto the DBX forum and they have everything you'd ever want to know about using and setting up your Driverack.

Basically.... you use the 4 band Output PEQ to compensate for any anomally's in your speaker cabinet response. I measured mine by taking RTA readings out in my front yard...away from any boundary's and reflections. Those PEQ curves stay set for that set of speakers. I use the Input PEQ or the Graph to sweeten the room response at the gig.

Currently, my Driverack is doing duty managing the FOH, delayed infills and Subs at my church. FOH is Ceiling hung EV 15's with 2" horn. We had our Audio contractor come out and SMAART the room. Basically, we corrected the room for a low mid resonance around 400hz and then added some boosts to the upper mid at 2.5k and 7.8k with a Hi shelf boost starting at 8k and gently rising. The articulation is phenomenal! Clarity and presence!

If I had to choose betweek the Behringer unit and the Driverack ...I'd take the Driverack hands down. I've heard too many guys complain about the reliability if the DCX unit. My Driverack gives me all the flec=xibility i need...mind you..I am running a SAC mixing system and it can duplicate everything the Driverack does...and more. When Bob Lentini finishes his dedicated Speaker processor plug-in...we'll, it'll make speaker management and optimization even easier....

Landl.livesound

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#7 Post by Landl.livesound »

David Carter wrote:
Landl.livesound wrote:I am surprised you didn't look into the Sabine unit as well. But don't worry the DR260 will do all that you need but the NAV360 just seems to have some more useful features for the same money.
Actually I did read about it briefly, but paying that much money for anything was never a realistic consideration, and you can't find used Sabine's anywhere (which probably tells you how good they are). The only reason the 260 happened was because of the deal I got on it.
Gotcha, I just saw your budget of under $1000. Hey if you get a great deal on used that's the way to go!


Take Care!

Fish
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Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:26 pm
Location: Sunny... California

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#8 Post by Fish »

I've got a DriveRack 480 in a system, and have always preferred making any programming adjustments to it via the serial port and a laptop. The control software is a free download from dbx's product page (it's the DriveWare GUI, under "Software/Firmware") and will let you play around with all the settings and options without even hooking up the unit.

As has already been mentioned, the idea is to use the output parametric EQs for the loudspeaker-specific tweaks that are always necessary for a given box, while the input EQ is for today's room or overall tone shaping (many people will "Fletcher-Munson" things here, which is an entirely other conversation!). I personally prefer parametrics over graphics any day of the week, but the choice is always yours. The Windoze control application also lets you open up detailed control windows for multiple aspects of the DSP at the same time, making it really easy to bounce back and forth among various things. This may help, or it may just make it easier to lose track of what you're working on and screw it up. :P

I hope the DriveRack becomes your regular processor and anything else the nearly-never-used backup. I've not had an issue with my 480 in seven years of use in a portable rig. Enjoy!
Slowly working on a pair of T30s...

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David Carter
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Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#9 Post by David Carter »

Thanks for the reply, Fish. I'm going to have a million questions as I start getting used to this thing. Hope you don't mind trying to answer a few of them... First question...
Fish wrote:As has already been mentioned, the idea is to use the output parametric EQs for the loudspeaker-specific tweaks that are always necessary for a given box, while the input EQ is for today's room or overall tone shaping.
How do you have your output PEQ set up? Do you have them linked across both channels (tops and subs) with all filters for the whole spectrum defined there? Or do you unlink them and set up the filters for the subs separately from the filters for the tops?
Dave

Built:
- Omni 10 (S2010 + piezo array)
- 2 x DR250 (DL II 2510 + melded array)
- 2 x Titan 39 (BP102 - 14"W)
- 2 x Titan 39 (3012LF - 20"W)
- 4 x DR200 (Delta Pro 8B + melded array)

jeffsco
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Sidney B.C.

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#10 Post by jeffsco »

David Carter wrote:How do you have your output PEQ set up? Do you have them linked across both channels (tops and subs) with all filters for the whole spectrum defined there? Or do you unlink them and set up the filters for the subs separately from the filters for the tops?
I unlink the tops from the Subs and run a set of output PEQ's for the Tops and one set for the Subs. I run my FOH in stereo with a mono feed to the delayed infills and to the subs. I would be reluctant to go back to the traditional "graph, crossover" type setup. The Driverack gives the flexibility required to do our jobs..

Fish
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:26 pm
Location: Sunny... California

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#11 Post by Fish »

David Carter wrote:Thanks for the reply, Fish. I'm going to have a million questions as I start getting used to this thing. Hope you don't mind trying to answer a few of them... First question...
Fish wrote:As has already been mentioned, the idea is to use the output parametric EQs for the loudspeaker-specific tweaks that are always necessary for a given box, while the input EQ is for today's room or overall tone shaping.
How do you have your output PEQ set up? Do you have them linked across both channels (tops and subs) with all filters for the whole spectrum defined there? Or do you unlink them and set up the filters for the subs separately from the filters for the tops?
No worries, I'll do the best I can to answer questions as I'm able. I'll warn you, though, I seem to be incapable of short answers! :)

In the system my 480 lives in, I have all the processing blocks in each output band paired. (It's a decade-old Renkus-Heinz four-way triamped system; the output bands are subs, lows, and mid/highs.) It's partially the fact that both the room and the loudspeaker setup are mirror image on both sides and that I've just never made the time to see if doing anything different between left and right would be of value. And as I think about it, it's probably more technically correct to have the output PEQ linked for a stereo setup (especially tops), since the idea is to use that to adjust for the particular quirks inherent to the loudspeaker. I also pair the input processing (using PEQs) since everything is mirror image.

So assuming you're running stereo tops and a mono sub, the pair of outputs you use for your tops would have their PEQ paired (or all processing blocks) and the sub would be separate. I'd probably pair up the input EQ and other processing sections as well, at least initially, but that may not be so great should you find yourself setting up one top next to a glass wall and the other out in the middle of the room. The mono sub output would of course not be linked. ;) If you have time to "tune the room" when you set up, the input EQ is where you'd be playing; leave the output PEQs alone.

You'll likely have the best results if you can take your loudspeakers out to an open field and come up with some "proper" EQ settings for them. Borrow or rent a good measurement rig (any chance you have a friend with one—and experience using it—that will bring it out some afternoon for some pizza and beer?) and figure out the necessary EQ corrections. Of course, just do one box at a time.

To get the most out of your 260, I'd recommend a dedicated laptop with a built-in serial port for controlling it, but if you play the same venues regularly you can leave it behind once you've got decent presets saved up. I'm currently keeping an eye out for an older laptop for just this purpose for a BSS Soundweb unit I am in the process of putting to use. I will admit, though, that the DriveRack's preset operation is a little kludgy and may take a combination of some playing with and rereading the manual to make sense of. When I first set up my 480, I was using VirtualPC on an original titanium G4 PowerBook with a lowly 500 MHz processor! It was a bit slow to use because of the emulation required to get Windows running on a different type of CPU, but it more than got the job done.

I really hope this helps, but don't hesitate to ask if I've just confused you a lot. It's a good DSP despite the learning curve and some quirks it may have. You'll definitely like having it and the reliability you haven't had with the Behringer.
Slowly working on a pair of T30s...

bgavin
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Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#12 Post by bgavin »

How hot does the DR260 run?
My biggest worry is that when I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.

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David Carter
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Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#13 Post by David Carter »

bgavin wrote:How hot does the DR260 run?
Don't know yet. I haven't had a chance to really put it through its paces yet. I did notice that it has ventilation slots on the right side and the right side of the top panel, and the manual says to be sure not to obstruct them.
Dave

Built:
- Omni 10 (S2010 + piezo array)
- 2 x DR250 (DL II 2510 + melded array)
- 2 x Titan 39 (BP102 - 14"W)
- 2 x Titan 39 (3012LF - 20"W)
- 4 x DR200 (Delta Pro 8B + melded array)

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bk-mac
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Location: Morehead. KY.

Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#14 Post by bk-mac »

David,

I own a 260 driverack. It hisses and has a slight 60hz hum. Y'd think for that$$$ it would be golden. Needless to say I can't use it in my studio. I purchased the BBE ds26 on a lark, and it is much quieter and No HUM. I like it more better and I prefer the pc interface too.

I do like having the 260 driverack's crazy long delay for time alignment of delay stacks, and it has loads of other features I haven't needed to use.

-bk.
Mac-Daddy of BASS!
Built to date - 12 T30's 24" w/4012ho; 2 TAT's 17" w/Dayton DCS 255-4

bgavin
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Re: Calling Driverack 260 Users...

#15 Post by bgavin »

It looks like one would have to buy the BBE DS48 to be somewhat equivalent to the DR260.

I noticed the DS48 only supports 7ms (7.7 feet) of delay.
That makes it mostly useless for those wanting to delay the subs/mains with the backline.

The hissing and hum in a unit as pricey as the DR260 would put me off, also.
After a lifetime in the computer business, I know how cheap they build all computer based hardware.
They use the cheapest no-name Chinese junk in so many cases. I saw this in high-end Radial gear at NAMM last year.
My biggest worry is that when I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.

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