Questions on limiters/gates/compressors/eqs?

[neverendingbeatz]

Finding this website 3 years ago was really a good learning experience about pro audio. Too bad I didn't found it earlier before I purchased some gear, so maybe I can use the stuff I have for now until I do a few more gigs and/or work more overtime...

The set up I have right now is two DR-250's w/ 2510 & cross firing peizos and one Titan-48 30" w/ 3015lf. I want to expand my set up in the next few weeks with another pair of DR's and 3 more Titan-48's = 4-DR 250's & 4-Titan 48's plus 2 wedgehorn10's. In the future, I will most definitely want 8 DR's and 8 Titan 48's. I'm planning on using the melded arrays to go along with my crossfiring arrays, and build some flat arrays as well. I am also planning to build another 30" titan 48, along with two more titan's that are 36" width. The response chart looks really good between 40hz to 60hz.

Okay so I have a few questions on if the gear I bought around 7-10 years ago is good enough or I might have cough up more money to buy more gear.

1) dbx 266xl compressor/limiter/gate
2) aphex 104 - Aural Exciter w/ Big Bottom
3) Behringer Ultragraph Pro 31-band Eq - low pass filter is 18ct/slope.
4) 2 - Crown CE-2000 = 400w@8ohm stereo, 660w @ 4ohm stereo,975w@2ohm stereo
5) 1 - Precedent 600A = 270w@8ohm stereo, 425w@4ohm stereo. - this will be for the w10's.
6) Rane TTm56 DJ Mixer w/ Technic 1200's & Shure 44-7's + Serato.

Music = DrumNBass, DubStep, HipHop, House, Techno, Hardcore/Hardstyle, Top 40....

[DJPhatman]

The Aphex 104 "Aural Exciter" is unnecessary. The Behringer EQ is adequate as long as it's quiet. The amps are heavy as all get out, but good iron.
As long as you know how to set the limiters on the dbx, although I don't see a use for compression/gate on a DJ rig. Just need to add a proper active crossover, and you are good to go.

[neverendingbeatz]

On the behringer eq, there is an 18oct/slope crossover for the mids and highs, and a separate sub out with adjustable 18oct/slope from 40hz to 250hz, so do I still need a dedicated crossover or can I get away with that for now?

Also, how do I set the limiter? What should I set the threshold and ratio too?

[djtrumptight]

i use the Behringer mdx 2100 compressor/limiter/gate/expander and my threshold is set at -10.which may be too low,ratio 1:1 according to my BFM forum notes.Also,search the forums using keywords such as limiter,ratio,attack,etc.,im not being a smart azz,but im sure the answers are there.By the way,what the hell are u gonna do with 8 t48's and 8 DR 250's ....a concert ? I would love to hear that!!!

[BrentEvans]

i use the Behringer mdx 2100 compressor/limiter/gate/expander and my threshold is set at -10.which may be too low,ratio 1:1 according to my BFM forum notes.Also,search the forums using keywords such as limiter,ratio,attack,etc.,im not being a smart azz,but im sure the answers are there.By the way,what the hell are u gonna do with 8 t48's and 8 DR 250's ....a concert ? I would love to hear that!!!

A 1:1 ratio offers no compression or limiting.

[Ron K]

i use the Behringer mdx 2100 compressor/limiter/gate/expander and my threshold is set at -10.which may be too low,ratio 1:1 according to my BFM forum notes.Also,search the forums using keywords such as limiter,ratio,attack,etc.,im not being a smart azz,but im sure the answers are there.By the way,what the hell are u gonna do with 8 t48's and 8 DR 250's ....a concert ? I would love to hear that!!!

A 1:1 ratio offers no compression or limiting.

+1

I see no reason to need a compressor on already compressed media except maybe to patch in on the spoken vocal.
As far as the cab count goes IMHO there's no substitution for having enough rig for the gig as long as you can properly deploy everything and know when enough is enough. Where a crossover is concerned I would be looking to find a nice DSP to handle all the system processing duties. If anything it will reduce the number of components in your rack.All that's really needed is a good DSP and a quiet 31 band EQ. Exciters and such are useless for the most part and very much so cause listener fatigue.

[djtrumptight]

sorry fellas,my ratio is actually set to 2:1,which may still be low,threshold is -10 and my comp has a switch on the back for -10/+4,of which i use the -10.i will definitely be purchasing a dsp unit soon as well as 3 of those 11 pound or lighter amps,im using a qsc usa 1300 for tops and a PV 2000 for my subs.Thats 99 lbs for both amps.with the dsc unit i can get rid of the compressor,my dod sr 835 crossover,MEQ 230 and at 11 lbs apiece for those amps,i can put all that in a rack with the dsp and it will weigh less than 1 of those amps.Any feedback on my compression set up wil be greatly appreicated as i only want to use it to limit,not compress or expand.

I GET TO USE MY T48'S FOR THE FIRST TIME TONIGHT !!!!Sorry about the caps but imagine the excitement im experiencing.Jcbowman,DJPhatman,anybody in the detroit area,i will be spinning at the Plaza Hotel ballroom inside the Plaza if you wanna stop by.I will be there by 7 to set up,the party starts at 9,all u can drink free once u pay to get in but if yall get there early enough i can get u in,or just tell them u are my sound engineer.

[RubiconProSound]

I see no reason to need a compressor on already compressed media except maybe to patch in on the spoken vocal.

The Aphex 104 "Aural Exciter" is unnecessary. The Behringer EQ is adequate as long as it's quiet. The amps are heavy as all get out, but good iron.
As long as you know how to set the limiters on the dbx, although I don't see a use for compression/gate on a DJ rig. Just need to add a proper active crossover, and you are good to go.

+1
your gear is fine for DJ work. So much is made of not using old X-overs and EQ's and the mantra seems to be "sell it and get a DCX or Drive rack" I'm with Ron and Phatman, for DJ work with pre-compressed media there is no real need for compression. I have a Driverack PA and to this day I still haven't used the limiter or compression that's on it. (for DJ work...)

Don't fret that you don't have a limiter, you can always use the voltmeter and gain control approach that's in the amp forum, it's worked fine for me on my "old iron" AB rack. It seems that most folks have the impression that you should never run your gear without a limiter and yet most of us do it just fine for years without issues before we finally get the cash to upgrade. The trick is to still "limit" the signal with the gains on the amps using your ears (not to accurate) or a volt meter.

I'm also with Phatman and Ron on any "Aural Exciter" type products...sell them to another DJ and use the cash for something else.

by the way...your precedent 600 will work great for monitors or tops...it has for me for over 12 years and going.

Look ma, no compression or limiting...

t=1266689946

[RubiconProSound]

I GET TO USE MY T48'S FOR THE FIRST TIME TONIGHT !!!!Sorry about the caps but imagine the excitement im experiencing.Jcbowman,DJPhatman,anybody in the detroit area,i will be spinning at the Plaza Hotel ballroom inside the Plaza if you wanna stop by.I will be there by 7 to set up,the party starts at 9,all u can drink free once u pay to get in but if yall get there early enough i can get u in,or just tell them u are my sound engineer.

...it didn't happen if there's no pics I'd love to see the set-up

[djtrumptight]

Man,thanks for mentioning pics,i al most forgot to charge my camcorder up,pics will be posted 2morrow.

[neverendingbeatz]

Well, I would be using 8 - titan 48's to do DrumNBass & DubStep Events here in Los Angeles. Anywhere from 100-1000 people, but just the awh... factor is what I'm looking for!!

I feel much better now that I'm not the only one with old gear. They work well, just very heavy!

I finally rented out a storage place so now I can build.

Does anyone use the behringer EPX3000 or the new EP4000? Are they any good?

[jcmbowman]

As far as the DBX Compressor/Limiter/Gate, I've been using one for a decade,and 90% of my gigs are DJ gigs. If you're DJing yourself, I agree that there's no need to compress the material. But if you're doing sound reinforcement for other DJs, it's imperative to have a limiter in place. The amount of gain that can be added on a typical DJ mixer is downright ridiculous. Even though the signal is already pushed to clip it can still continue to add up to 20dB of additional output, and depending on the DJ they will take advantage of that capability, even though ti will sound like crap. Having a well-set compressor/limiter is the insurance policy that lets me walk away from the board/rack during gigs.

[djtrumptight]

Man JC,i know what u mean about other DJ's wanting to turn things up....or down.I had a DJ with me saturday night and the whole party,i never left the stage,not even to go to the bathroom.This DJ was attempting to make my system sound like what he is accustomed to i guess.he uses that B-52 all in one cd player hook up with 2 small amps (no cases) and 4 small speakers (no bottom to the system whatsoever),and no processing except for whats built into his mixer.so i noticed he wasnt watching the meters on the mixer as i do,it was hitting in the red zone.I watched him turn the bass down on my mixer and turn the master volume up,i went and turned the bass back up and the master down.Alot of DJ's forget that when u are behind the music,it will never sound like it does in front of the music and they attempt to make it sound like that from behind,especially when they arent used to hearing bass from the system.Once i do my sound check,i never change any tone controls.If its sounding "good" to you from behind it,it probably sounds horrible to the listeners.

[jcmbowman]

Man JC,i know what u mean about other DJ's wanting to turn things up....or down.I had a DJ with me saturday night and the whole party,i never left the stage,not even to go to the bathroom.This DJ was attempting to make my system sound like what he is accustomed to i guess.he uses that B-52 all in one cd player hook up with 2 small amps (no cases) and 4 small speakers (no bottom to the system whatsoever),and no processing except for whats built into his mixer.so i noticed he wasnt watching the meters on the mixer as i do,it was hitting in the red zone.I watched him turn the bass down on my mixer and turn the master volume up,i went and turned the bass back up and the master down.Alot of DJ's forget that when u are behind the music,it will never sound like it does in front of the music and they attempt to make it sound like that from behind,especially when they arent used to hearing bass from the system.Once i do my sound check,i never change any tone controls.If its sounding "good" to you from behind it,it probably sounds horrible to the listeners.

Sounds like a really good set of full-range monitors should be in the cards for you in the future. If you've got a separate amp and EQ for the DJ monitors you can make sure it sounds the way (and loudness) they like and are accustomed to, and still shape and EQ the sound for the room so that it sounds good. If you get a DJ up there who really likes to push the Highs, just eq up the highs in the monitors. If he wants to push the whole thing into the red, crank the monitors and lower the master gain on your system. It sounds deceptive as hell, but truthfully most Electronic DJs have no concept whatsoever of levels, dynamics, or how to preserve the hearing of their fans. They just want it loud and in their face.

[mattaudio]

I used to have Crown CE2000s and an XS500. Heavy heavy amps. I got rid of them when I sold my old cheap 2x15" boxes and monitors, thinking I'd be moving to a powered setup. I did get SRM450s, but then I found this site as well.

When I started on BFM, I wound up with XTi amps and I control the DSP with my laptop. Good built-in DSP (if you have the software) and very very lightweight. Plus, Crowns such as the CE2000 seem to have decent resale value. So I'd strongly consider moving to lighter amps with built-in DSP.

My current setup is a SKB rolling rack with two XTi amps. Easy to roll, easy to lift, easy to control DSP. I'd highly recommend.