DCX Woes

[David Carter]

Just needed somewhere to whine for a few minutes about my gear. I've had a DCX for about 18 months now which I purchased B-stock from Musician's Friend. Sometime last fall, it started generating an awful static noise in the middle of one of our rehearsals.

After doing some reading, I opened it up and slid a piece of overhead transparency film under the PCB with the input and output jacks mounted to it. Apparently there's a history of the pins from the input jacks on some DCX's protruding below the PCB and making contact with the metal case.

Didn't have any more problems for some time (but it didn't really get used that much either), but it started doing it again (to a lesser degree) last time we jammed a couple of weeks ago. I opened it up again, and the transparency film had shifted to one side so that it was no longer under all the jacks, but I'm not convinced that was the issue because there didn't appear to be any contact with the case. Anyway, I added another layer of transparency film and taped them into place so they wouldn't slide. I then ran recorded music through the rig for several hours to try to replicate the problem, and it didn't happen again.

I've just got this nagging feeling that I haven't seen the last of this issue, and I'm really struggling with deciding whether to keep the thing and give it another chance, keep it and buy a cheap crossover as a backup, replace it with a new DCX, or replace it with a Driverack or BBE product.

I'm just venting right now, but I'd welcome any thoughts anyone may have...

[Scott Brochu]

David, are you talking about the 2496?

[Landl.livesound]

Hey David,

The best bang to buck DSP I've found is the BBE DS24, as you mentioned it as well. The big reasons is it has all the basic things you need and does them well, and doesn't have a track record, that I've come across, of failures. Haven't actually had a report yet surface on the interweb of a DS failure. And for $180, new it's hard to beat.

If you do decide to buy another, I would skip the dbx DRPA, as it has similar limitations to the BBE DS in the delay section, and does much of the same stuff as the DS series except is about $400. Which is about $220 more, plus it has a bunch of features you don't need/want like the auto-EQ and feedback destroyer. Those things can be dealt with much better in other ways than in the DRPA. So I would skip it for the price tag and feature set. (It does a extra GEQ or 2, IIRC, but nothing you can't do with the PEQ filters in the DS24.)

And if you find yourself looking at the DR260, I would shift side-ways to the Sabine NAV240 or NAV360. As the 240 is $625 and the 260 is $700, and have good features. My replacement of the DS24 will actually be the NAV360. And I might plan to get a DS48 for a 4 in-8 out DSP for monitor world to hopefully bi-amp several SRX712's in a month or 2. (Although I have looked into the built-in DSP in amps for monitors since that could be useful, but we'll see)


Anyway, I could see the DS24 as a great back-up/replacement for $180.

Take Care!

[jcmbowman]

the BBE DS24 only does 12, 18, and 24 db/octave HPF and LPF, so it's a no-go in my book.

And the BBE DS48 only does 7ms of delay per output, so that kills it for large horn subs as well.

[Radian]

Dave, you just need a more permanent fix-it solution. Try a thin piece of mica or blank circuit board and keep it in place with some film fiber tape or 3M contact adhesive. Worse comes to worse, if you still have your receipts, you can send in to get it fixed. Behringer customer service is fairly easy to work with and that is a common problem with the units (especially pre-2008). What is described above is akin to what they would do now anyways.

-Radian

[Landl.livesound]

the BBE DS24 only does 12, 18, and 24 db/octave HPF and LPF, so it's a no-go in my book.

And the BBE DS48 only does 7ms of delay per output, so that kills it for large horn subs as well.

IIRC, the DS24 does do 8 pole filters as well? I will have to confirm that on mine though.

The 7ms is something to consider as well, if you will need delays larger than that. I believe the PA goes up to 10ms, but if you are looking in that price ($400-500) range I would go with the Sabine NAV240 as the feature set is much better, for $100 more.

The short delay on the DS series is one reason why I wold guess it is at the low price point it is at. The DS24 has served me well for over 2 years without a hitch and paid for its $180 over and over, but know I know it is time to upgrade so that is where the Sabine NAV360 comes in.


I guess you can look at it this way that having a DSP with a few milliseconds too short delay, is better than having a DSP that doesn't work or adds that sound you don't want.

It ends up going back to the buy once, cry once; as many times you will spend more money in the end, than even if you had bought the more expensive, but better, piece of gear in the first place.


Don't get me wrong, the DCX2496 has a great feature set for its price point and sounds good, but having one malfunction leading into/during a gig is a major buzzkill, and something I would rather not worry about and take away at least one variable. It especially can be a pain if you have band members yelling at you, or the people who hired you asking you what's going on. There is something to be said for being able to go into amyn gigs without having to cross your fingers and hope X piece of gear works the whole show.


Take Care!

[Monomer]

Hey David,

The best bang to buck DSP I've found is the BBE DS24, as you mentioned it as well. The big reasons is it has all the basic things you need and does them well, and doesn't have a track record, that I've come across, of failures. Haven't actually had a report yet surface on the interweb of a DS failure. And for $180, new it's hard to beat.

Mine failed. DSP chip fried after a show where power was 97VAC all night (it's rated down to 95)


Contacted BBE, shipped it out and they shipped me a brand new unit. took less then a week. I went with a DS48 for the extra inputs and outputs, possibly aux fed subs.

-BUT-

SAC has all that processing included now, and I'm looking forward to using that soon.

[Landl.livesound]

Hey David,

The best bang to buck DSP I've found is the BBE DS24, as you mentioned it as well. The big reasons is it has all the basic things you need and does them well, and doesn't have a track record, that I've come across, of failures. Haven't actually had a report yet surface on the interweb of a DS failure. And for $180, new it's hard to beat.

Mine failed. DSP chip fried after a show where power was 97VAC all night (it's rated down to 95)


Contacted BBE, shipped it out and they shipped me a brand new unit. took less then a week. I went with a DS48 for the extra inputs and outputs, possibly aux fed subs.

-BUT-

SAC has all that processing included now, and I'm looking forward to using that soon.

Good to know, thanks Monomer.

[David Carter]

Here's some shots of the innards of my DCX. Hope you can see them. I've used ImageShack for a long time, but this is the first time I've created an album, so I don't know if it's publicly visible by default.

[AntonZ]

The pics are visible (but took forever to download the pics).
Your power supply is identical to the one in my DEQ. Very different from the ADA8000. I cannot offer help on this one, sorry.

[bgavin]

A lot of cheap caps, ribbon cables and a bunch of ICs.
My money is on the cheap caps and/or ribbon cables.

I didn't see any poppers or bulgers, from what I could see.
Look closely at all the caps. If any show these signs, they are done.
If you have the chops and a modest soldering station, a recap isn't difficult.

I figure 2 hours at the outside, including R & R of the boards.

[David Carter]

A lot of cheap caps, ribbon cables and a bunch of ICs.
My money is on the cheap caps and/or ribbon cables.

I didn't see any poppers or bulgers, from what I could see.
Look closely at all the caps. If any show these signs, they are done.
If you have the chops and a modest soldering station, a recap isn't difficult.

I figure 2 hours at the outside, including R & R of the boards.

I definitely do NOT have the chops nor do I have a decent soldering station. I'd love to find someone like you here close. Interested in visiting the Smoky Mountains?

I really want this unit to work. I've read up on Driverack PA+ and 260, BBE VS24 and VS48, Peavey VSX26, etc., and none of them seem to be worry free. They all have issues or extremely high price tags. I'd love to just get this baby working and stick with it.

So, if ribbon cables are a potential issue also, maybe I should start there. That would be easier than dealing with the caps right off the bat. If I want to replace the existing ribbon cables with new ones, what do I need to be looking for? How do I distinguish the good from the junk? Any specific suppliers you'd recommend?

Thanks for the help. This is frustrating, but maybe I can get it fixed and learn a lot at the same time...

[bgavin]

Most ribbon cables are like IDE cables in computers. They have a pin and socket arrangement and use non-precious metals on the surfaces. In your humid area, corrosion is always a possibility.

Look into the CAIG products, such as DeOxit and the cleaning solutions.
An easy way to scrape snot off the pins is by seating and reseating the cable several times.
As long as you don't pull by the cable, you won't damage it. If you do... time for a new cable or roll your own. Ugly.

You either have premium brand caps, or do not.
I saw a Sanyo, but the majority of the gold on black look like CCS.
They don't have to be popped or swollen to be bad.
If the box is twitchy, a recap is certainly in order.
If the box is dead, actual diagnosis is required, starting at the wall circuit.

I do a lot of recapping on 2000-era mother boards.
The newer ones are coming with solid polymer caps, which are SOO much better.

[David Carter]

Most ribbon cables are like IDE cables in computers. They have a pin and socket arrangement and use non-precious metals on the surfaces. In your humid area, corrosion is always a possibility.

Look into the CAIG products, such as DeOxit and the cleaning solutions.
An easy way to scrape snot off the pins is by seating and reseating the cable several times.
As long as you don't pull by the cable, you won't damage it. If you do... time for a new cable or roll your own. Ugly.

So I'm not looking at replacing cables unless they're physically damaged, but instead I'm looking at cleaning the connections and reseating the cables, right?

If the box is twitchy, a recap is certainly in order.
If the box is dead, actual diagnosis is required, starting at the wall circuit.

It's not dead. In fact, most of the time it's fine. But it seems that after it runs for a few hours with a few mics, guitar, bass, etc. pumping through it via my mixer, it starts to make a very obnoxious static noise that gets mixed in with the audio signal. From that point on, the static is pretty much constant (even after powering the unit off and then on again) until it has rested for a while. My rig is not getting used a lot these days, so I can't remember if it's happening every single time I run it for 3-4 hours or if it's intermittent.

[Landl.livesound]

I really want this unit to work. I've read up on Driverack PA+ and 260, BBE VS24 and VS48, Peavey VSX26, etc., and none of them seem to be worry free. They all have issues or extremely high price tags. I'd love to just get this baby working and stick with it.

Hey David,

I think what most would suggest is that all the other DSP's you mention would be much more less "repair prone" and much more reliable in the long run, than the DCX2496 especially in a mobile situation.


That is the one thing I have found about when actually using Behringer gear is that the pieces that are decent just aren't built very well and aren't built for lots of gigging and tend to fail in those ways. (This is just from the using of 2 Behringer consoles and a good amount of outboard gear, and of course from hearing what other people on this and other boards say.)




As an example, I have a couple of Yorkville NX35 (It is a nice speaker for a monitor, super-light, and dirt cheap.) monitor which their one known issue is that the crossover likes to act up and the horn or woofer will randomly cut-out and then at the next gig be back. I sent back the crossover for repair because the horn was cutting out. It has worked fine for about 4 months and now the woofer is doing the same thing. I know that I don't want to put up with wondering when the next crossover will start acting up because I know it will end up happening at the most inopportune time on of the next times it does. So my solution is to buy something with a better track record so I have begun to build my monitor rig up picking up SRX712's. I figure might as well pick up something that is well respected, and entry pro-level monitor, and something that will "just work" at least 99% of the time. As it will take away a variable and something I won't have to worry about on gigs.

So just an example of how it can sometimes be in the best interest of investing in something that you know has a much better chance of "just working" so you can sleep easy at night.


I guess you would also have to consider how many times a month this is going out, since I see you mention it doesn't go out much. I am lucky to be getting to the point where I am averaging being out 2-3 nights a week, so I need stuff that "Just works".


Take Care!