Slim t39's and Dubstep

[Monomer]

My OTop212s are silly loud.

hell, my 1x12's are loud.



....to 100Hz

[DJPhatman]

My OTop212s are silly loud.

hell, my 1x12's are loud.



....to 100Hz

Low pass them at 100Hz L/R 48db/oct, and high pass the subs @100Hz L/R 48db/oct.

[SeisTres]

Bingo. /cough kick /cough bin.

:X

I know you're selling all your stuff, but what seems to work really for a kick bin type of effect, is when I stack my jacks on top my titans and cross over fairly high. For reference I usually Low pass them at 87hz and the jacks dont start to pick it up until 115hz. I've just experiment with this since this requires for the subs to be split radiating the sound directly to the same place are the tops are facing. If you try this with corner loading and not splitting subs, this effect does not work at all and sounds really nasty. Localization of the subs becomes a HUGE issue, not to mention all the phasing crap. However, I dont run my setup like this since I just like dnb/dance but it's never really played at anythign I do, so there'd be no benefit for me. But if you ever start building everything back up you should try this see if get good results.

PS, I run titatans, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to do this with tubas, as well.

[Monomer]

My OTop212s are silly loud.

hell, my 1x12's are loud.



....to 100Hz

Low pass them at 100Hz L/R 48db/oct, and high pass the subs @100Hz L/R 48db/oct.

high pass 18 db butterworth set at 70, to counter the rising response of the slims.


To much kick drum beater noise if I dont.

[Monomer]

I'm reluctant to post this, but here goes anyway.



I sent this as a PM, but without starting a firefight, this is my opinion of the subject:

Raising xover points and bumping eq sliders is a half ass attack at band-aiding a larger issue.


The main deal, dnb and dubstep has synths and basslines that not only evenly cover from 20-16k, but they infinitely change pitch. To understand how to properly reproduce dnb/dubstep, you have to understand the music.

Some of the most technical and talented producers make this shit, and spectrographs of it are flat. To get the proper feel of the midbass synths you need to move the crossover point at or below 80, and above 320 to keep the phasing and response proper thru the midbass range. Even almighty DRs and T48s will not do it right.


THTs from 20 to 80, Kickbins of some sort from 80 to 320, DR250s or 280s from 320 up.(I'd build this.)


You guys are going to make me come out of retirement and build a bunch of shit to prove this ffs.

It is a fact that crossovers effect phase, so the above may seem contradictory but it works.

With the amount of information and current draw shown to your tops when high passed at 80 or 100, the rest of the passband suffers, specifically with DnB and dubstep.

The rest of the genres have a different set of characteristics and needs. Anybody can try and convince me I'm crazy, but until you experience it for yourself continue to not believe me. Granted 90% of the population probably doesn't know the difference, but I do and that is enough for me to pursue it.

I have played around with my processor, a few amps, a pair of THTs, an OTop212, and a direct radiating pair of 15's just for giggles... and it made a difference. Enough of a difference that I would select, test, and build an extra set of kickbin cabs, and carry them and thier amps into gigs. Because 70-320 is just as important as 20-70. And yes I have spectrographs of tunes showing harmonics into the low 20s.



Take all of this with a grain of salt, with this in mind:

You can't ignore feel, sound is a balance of feel and science. Too much of either and you are in trouble. How many times has a perfectly flat RTA trace sounded like crap? And some ghetto ass system sounded good?

DnB and Dubstep are VIBE genres, the feel of the music. You have to take a more organic approach, while still considering the science behind it.

I'll get off my soapbox now.




Edit-I'm probably one in a million, and I am way on the outside of conventional thinking, but I'm ok with that.

Do keep posting your discoveries.


Thinking outside the box is one thing, your on the outside of the box looking in, This isn't a bad thing at all because this is how science is pushed to the next level.

perhaps a bin designed to go strictly from 70-320 is in order. Sounds like a fun project!

[particleman14]

Yesss,, more drum and bass plzzzz. I just built 4 39 slims, bp102 and monomer is right on the money, corner loaded these things kill... I made a compromise by doing 4xt39s (for portability/dimensions), instead of 2x t30 or t36's. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to hit the lower freqs for dnb music... but Just stack them up and you can hit those low notes no prob..even 1 t39 slim by itself has good output, being just a little soft 35hz and lower.. and thank you jcmbowman for dropping the knowledge on the "dub" in dubstep, so many ppl I talk to have no clue of the real origin. prolly cuz they never used vinyl!! props

Andrew

[la malta]

I'd like to share with you guys this link as far as isolating turntables go: http://www1.scratchlive.net/forum/discussion/17884
Scroll down and there's links to pictures. Not the prettiest and I haven't actually tried it, but it probably don't get no cheaper then that and sound guy Shorty (http://www.systemsbyshorty.com/) builds his DJ consoles isolating with rubber band isolation and swears hes not found anything better. One day I want to build a DJ table with the whole top isolated using something like this.

I'm thinking of making those ashtray isolaters and stashing them in the gig bag for emergencies.

[jcmbowman]

DnB you say? Check these artists out:

http://www.soundcloud.com/djteebee new bangin 3 deck mix that covers many subgenres other than raw clownstep

LOVE Teebee. Not so fond of his latest mixing, but his studio and production work is phenomenal.

Back in 2005 someone anonymously sent me a link to the FTP dump for the entire backcatalogue of Subtitles records. I grabbed everything on there and a week later the site was gone. This is the mix that came out of it:
http://transmutagen.com/johnb/johnb_s_a_d.mp3
and this is the track listing:
http://transmutagen.com/TL_s_a_d.htm

Love me some Teebee.


On the other hand - I prefer the early days of DnB/Jungle. Check this link for some brutal mid-90s stuff:
The Jungle Book
The music played by those guys is the reason I had to buy a 4-way crossover to replace the 3-way I had back in the day. I needed the extra 20hz on the low end.

[phil]

I'd like to share with you guys this link as far as isolating turntables go: http://www1.scratchlive.net/forum/discussion/17884
Scroll down and there's links to pictures. Not the prettiest and I haven't actually tried it, but it probably don't get no cheaper then that and sound guy Shorty (http://www.systemsbyshorty.com/) builds his DJ consoles isolating with rubber band isolation and swears hes not found anything better. One day I want to build a DJ table with the whole top isolated using something like this.

I'm thinking of making those ashtray isolaters and stashing them in the gig bag for emergencies.

That's exactly how we would do it back in the day. Back in the day though, those ashtrays were in almost every venue.

It was a little weird, cause there isn't a solid base, and there is a little movement if you're forceful with the turntable, but it only takes a minute to adjust to .

We used this setup next to piles of subs and it worked like a charm.

[jcmbowman]

New must have mix:


http://content.dogsonacid.com/mixes/Noi ... an2010.mp3


SO much techy midbass, this is why I build kickbins.

For some reason their server changes the link to a .php and then says it's not available - but if you change the url in the address bar back to .mp3 it will then load properly.

And - this stuff is textbook DnB - the stuff that had me running a 4-way system over a decade ago. But... it was not technically a kickbin system - we ran the subs from 25hz - 70hz, the double 18s from 70hz - 320hz, the mids (12" horn-loaded driver) from 320hz - 2.5Khz, and Compression drivers from 2.5Khz up. Great system back then, but what I've got now kicks it in the teeth with no need for a kickbin, and I haven't even got around to building my DR tops yet. Just sayin'

[Monomer]

hijacked....



Last night went well again.

[Drey Chennells]

Wisounds why were you not satisfied with pushing eq on the THT24 80-100? I havent ran out the 4 we built yet so don't know how they do up there. I'm building J12s for the vip rooms in my current project and was anticipating OT12s with the stack of 8-12 THT24 for main room (depending on in club tests).

On a side note, growing up in orlando/miami bass was it. Magic Mike and Clay D were cutting records and doing things people had never heard of. I laugh now thinking about some of the skating rink systems we blew up with 20-40hz tracks fresh out the deck. Its been said here before but, most systems will never need it, some aren't complete w/out it.

[Drey Chennells]

uh huh, not as hard on the edge as you want, ok. Well that is a 13'(or was it 11'?) path on the THT so that is stretching the bandwith a bit. I'll be curious to see which cab the J or OTop 12 blends better in house. Nothing trumps real world so I'll be doing mini system tests in a couple weeks...

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Well that is a 13'(or was it 11'?) path on the THT so that is stretching the bandwith a bit.

Not in the least. THT is fine to at least 150Hz, though I wouldn't go that high with it myself. But you don't have any above bandwidth harmonics out of the THT, and that's the difference between what it produces from 80-100 as opposed to direct radiating subs or midbass horns.

[Drey Chennells]

A 20-150hz bandwith is exceptional. Maybe the JL drivers were the mush. I'm sure their ebp and other parameters offer some compromises. I would expect the THT to eq up there (80-100) just fine if you wanted more. Based on percussion tests and sweeps output with the DVC was balanced 20-100hz for me fwiw.