Slim t39's and Dubstep

[Monomer]

I thought I was going to puke and my eyes were hazy.


(now that I got your attention)

Two 15 inch overall width, bp102 loaded. HP at 50Hz 18db butterworth, LP at 80Hz 12db butterworth. Processor is a DS48, amp is a rmx2450 - run off of one stereo side of the rmx (an omnitop was on the other channel)

On thing I've learned is turntables resonate. The dj who played most of the dubstep had a Scratch live setup. We could crank it a lot more without any feedback. Then again, the tables were some plastic numark TT's, techs would have fair better. The DJ loved it, and said it was one of the best setups he's heard. Nothing but complements the entire night.

It was at around 12VAC all night, subs placed in a corner. room is tiny at (roughly) 15ftx55ft. I limited to 26Vac, never reached it - people would have been puking. It was to much for this small of a bar. The 12db of gain from corner loading is nothing to mess around with, as it was louder with just these two subs properly corner loaded verses all four of my t39's in a less-then-fantastic room placement.


I'll be doing sound for this show for a bit now. any SE builders or anyone interested in BillF sound around here should stop in (check the "come hear them" forum)








..and after all this I'm addicted. I'm in the process of buying some of wiisounds THT's of him. I have to hear/feel what 20Hz is like at war volumes.

[bgavin]

HP at 50Hz 18db butterworth, LP at 80Hz 12db butterworth.

This reinforces what Bill has said all along, where the bass power range lies.

The Butterworth filter produces a hump at the crossover (L-R does not), which adds to the bump at 50 Hz.
Even so, T39 is entirely happy at war volume above 50 Hz.

[Radian]

It also reinforces the notion of just how loud is loud enough.

Folks insisting on the T48 for everything....No, a cab doesn't need a 15" inside it in order to blow your pants off. Using a cruise missile to light a cigarette makes a mess for everyone, even for the smoker. "Jurassic Park" sydrome - don't be so enamored by the possibilities of a big (yes T48's are BIG), bold sound system that you forget to stop and genuinely question wether you should even consider putting something together. Work your way from the bottom up, not top down, augmenting your system as needs progress, as opposed to building a T-Rex of a system only to have it kick yer' butt every time you try to deploy it.

DR280's and T48's indoors? Who are you trying to run sound for, the Dallas Cowboys? Fagettabotit.

Checking the content of your music with an analyzer before diving in to a build can save you money, time, and space. As above for example, if you're spinning vinyl, there is a point quickly reached where loud and low start to disagree with the equipment or venue (disc skipping, jumping, blown circuit breakers, structural damage, pissed off cops and venue owners, audience fatigue). Heck, during their debut, Servodrive owners running their rigs WOT found out real-quick that even the audience has a threshold for goodness. People where walking / dancing in front of and around the cabs only to end up spilling their guts or passing out. The motionless bodies lying in front of the stacks didn't necessarily strike a positive chord with the crowd in the immediate vicinities. not cool.

Monomer - Sounds like you had a good time keeping it real. Nice job. Next time you get good sound like that, break out the hand-held RTA/SPL meter and wander through the dance floor / venue to attach some hard numbers to the sound...Photographers do this all the time with their light-meters. After a few times, you'll calibrate your ears.

[Monomer]

an rta setup is next on the list.

I'll try the L-R curve nexttime. I can't wait!

[bitSmasher]

Concrete blocks and squash balls

[DJ Big Ronn]

It also reinforces the notion of just how loud is loud enough.

Folks insisting on the T48 for everything....No, a cab doesn't need a 15" inside it in order to blow your pants off. Using a cruise missile to light a cigarette makes a mess for everyone, even for the smoker. "Jurassic Park" sydrome - don't be so enamored by the possibilities of a big (yes T48's are BIG), bold sound system that you forget to stop and genuinely question wether you should even consider putting something together. Work your way from the bottom up, not top down, augmenting your system as needs progress, as opposed to building a T-Rex of a system only to have it kick yer' butt every time you try to deploy it.

DR280's and T48's indoors? Who are you trying to run sound for, the Dallas Cowboys? Fagettabotit.

Checking the content of your music with an analyzer before diving in to a build can save you money, time, and space. As above for example, if you're spinning vinyl, there is a point quickly reached where loud and low start to disagree with the equipment or venue (disc skipping, jumping, blown circuit breakers, structural damage, pissed off cops and venue owners, audience fatigue). Heck, during their debut, Servodrive owners running their rigs WOT found out real-quick that even the audience has a threshold for goodness. People where walking / dancing in front of and around the cabs only to end up spilling their guts or passing out. The motionless bodies lying in front of the stacks didn't necessarily strike a positive chord with the crowd in the immediate vicinities. not cool.

Monomer - Sounds like you had a good time keeping it real. Nice job. Next time you get good sound like that, break out the hand-held RTA/SPL meter and wander through the dance floor / venue to attach some hard numbers to the sound...Photographers do this all the time with their light-meters. After a few times, you'll calibrate your ears.

I use dr250's and T-48's for EVERY job that I do, inside or out. when im in a small place, say 30by50 i use one t-48. the rest of the time 2 or 4. I'm sure that there is a place for the smaller cabs, and I may build some one day, but I use mine for everything. I have the pack space, so there is no reason to start at the bottom. Had I built smaller cabs, i would have had to start building more to get what i wanted out of them . I built big, and all is good.

[TimPut]

The Butterworth filter produces a hump at the crossover (L-R does not), which adds to the bump at 50 Hz.

Butterworth filters are the maximally flat alignment. A butterworth HP produces no hump, peak, or bump. A standard butterworth crossover produces a bump, but only in the summed response.

[Monomer]

I use dr250's and T-48's for EVERY job that I do, inside or out. when im in a small place, say 30by50 i use one t-48. the rest of the time 2 or 4. I'm sure that there is a place for the smaller cabs, and I may build some one day, but I use mine for everything. I have the pack space, so there is no reason to start at the bottom. Had I built smaller cabs, i would have had to start building more to get what i wanted out of them . I built big, and all is good.

I can carry in and setup this rig in 15mins by myself, exactly what I was going for.


I'm picking up some THT's and building a couple more omnitops for the larger shows. Most every bar I've done thus far the four titans have been more then enough.

Timput, that was my thought on the butterworth. Subs are also crossed over lower then the tops to counter the titans rising response. I've found that 75-80Hz with 12db Butterworth sounds the best yet.



I've also found out that one of my omnitop's piezo arrays were switch polarity, and that my rig is out of polarity from the house rig. Each show is only sounding better!

[Monomer]

Concrete blocks and squash balls

no room for it all. The tables are setup on the bar. Squash ball/tennis balls does sound like an idea. I've used a couple of boards with carpet matting sandwiched before; worked rather well.

I think it has more to due with the fact they were using a pair of Numark tt1650's. A set of techs (I don't like travelling with mine) would have been a lot better.

again, it's a rather small show. I think next week I'm going to leave the omnitop at home and just use their tops. Every show is sounding better and every show I'm using less and less equipment. I've even switch racks to an 4ru skb rolling rack, a single side of an rmx2450 powering the titans, the other side powering an omnitop.



This is the first show where the subs were properly corner loaded. It was honestly louder with just the two subs properly placed.


/rant

[jcmbowman]

Concrete blocks and squash balls

no room for it all. The tables are setup on the bar. Squash ball/tennis balls does sound like an idea. I've used a couple of boards with carpet matting sandwiched before; worked rather well.

I think it has more to due with the fact they were using a pair of Numark tt1650's. A set of techs (I don't like travelling with mine) would have been a lot better.


/rant

I usually go with Cinder blocks to dampen the vibration of whichever table the Turntables are set up on for big gigs, but in a pinch I resort to this Ghetto method:

take a length of foam mattress topper wide enough for both turntables and the mixer to sit on and wrap a cheap blanket around it. Set the gear on top. The idea is just to isolate the turntables from whatever they're sitting on enough that the bass that's vibrating the table doesn't travel through to the turntables.

But yeah - you'd be better off with Tech 12s.

[J_Dunavin]

if it's that nuts with bp102's then the lf3012's must be crazy.

[Monomer]

if it's that nuts with bp102's then the lf3012's must be crazy.

if I wasn't going with tht's, that'd be the route I would take.


the content 50-70hz is brutal;Bill is right.

[jcmbowman]

if it's that nuts with bp102's then the lf3012's must be crazy.

if I wasn't going with tht's, that'd be the route I would take.


the content 50-70hz is brutal;Bill is right.

How many THTs are you getting?

[Monomer]

My 4

I think I'll be making 4 more in the summer...


or, however many the box truck I'm looking at getting will fit.

[jcmbowman]

My 4

Crap - that means I've got competition in town now. Time to build those DR250s.