What's to chat about?

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SethRocksYou
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Re: What's to chat about?

#421 Post by SethRocksYou » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:35 am

Thanks for the great tips guys. I've only ever used spade bits in the past. Yet, I've never drilled from both sides to minimize tear out. Glad I asked!

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Re: What's to chat about?

#422 Post by SethRocksYou » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:43 am

I just right clicked the photo, copy photo address, and pasted it in place of the original attachmnet
himhimself wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:05 am
Definitely better if you can drill from both sides. If not, but you can get a piece of scrap behind the drill location, screw from the front so it's pulled tight on the back side and then drill and it will help minimize the tearout as the spade comes out. Remove the screws and scrap and fill the holes when done.
As for wiring, I just routed independently from each of the 4 jacks into the driver chamber and connected to posts, then from there to the driver. I didn't do the 4 connector speakons, but you could do the same thing, just connecting the wires for the tops to separate posts so they are all tied together. There's a pic on my build thread, not copying in here for some reason...
Finally took the took the time to open my t30s back up and connect all 4 speakons. Used a couple hanger bolts with wing nuts to connect the leads along with another short lead going to the driver. Now I can mix and match between between any of the cabinet inputs depending upon how and where I set them up. Should of done this ages ago. Oh well, better late than never.
Image


Interesting option. I'll give that some thought. :thumbsup:

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Re: What's to chat about?

#423 Post by SethRocksYou » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:13 pm

Tried it from both sides. Still got a bit of chipping and break out. But, not too bad and way better than had I just gone straight through. A little rounding over, bondo, and sanding will make it perfect though. When I drill the top for the recessed SpeakOn's I'll try using a backing board, just to see the difference.
20200309_154713.jpg

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Re: What's to chat about?

#424 Post by SethRocksYou » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:48 pm

Back home from a little trip. I'm a little excited about this... Amazon had a 500' spool of 12/4 speaker wire at about $150 off, listed as used/open box. I guess they shipped it to someone and they returned it. It was in a beat up box, inside another beat up box... I figured it might have had some wire taken off of it or something. Or a broken spool maybe? Nope. Pristine, brand new, unmolested, intact spool in perfect condition. Sweet! 500' of four conductor 12 AWG for essentially 50¢/ft, delivered. Love it!

20200317_161130.jpg


The Duratex and SpeakOn connectors/dish also came in from https://www.speakerhardware.com/, thanks Leland. So, back to the T39 tomorrow. Will probably get the wiring situated and panel 8 (the back) installed

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Charles Jenkinson
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Re: What's to chat about?

#425 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:36 am

Rejoicing with you Seth!

...I'll maybe upgrade mine to proper cable some day.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded
2xT30

Words&graphics - Audio&Acoustics - Hardware&DSP; 3 different paradigms.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: What's to chat about?

#426 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:39 am

SethRocksYou wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:48 pm
500' of four conductor 12 AWG for essentially 50¢/ft, delivered.
So, how are you planning to use it? Only time I drag out my two 4-conductor cables is when I split the subs and am running 3 per side....

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Re: What's to chat about?

#427 Post by SethRocksYou » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:11 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:39 am
So, how are you planning to use it? Only time I drag out my two 4-conductor cables is when I split the subs and am running 3 per side....
The larger gigs I've done, we've just rented QSC K series stuff... powered, no need for speaker wire. I've never really taken the subs and tops I have now seriously and have just used inexpensive zip wire. So, this is the first speaker wire I've had that's appropriate for pro audio. My intention is to use it the way the speaker plans suggest and I'm open to other options.

This first sub is going to get accompanied by a pair of 2x6 SLAPs and is going to be a gift for my dad. It's going to replace an inexpensive 12" ported sub and 6" Fender Passport speakers that are powered by a Behringer NU1000DSP. I'm going to have the new T39/SLAP set-up powered by an Ashly ne800pe (40 volts), which also has great DSP built in.

Anyway, it just seems like the easiest solution to be able to tell dad to just hook it up any way he wants so he doesn't have to think about it. As long as there's a wire connected to the cabs, it'll work as intended.

Beyond that, I just assumed I'd set the larger 30" T39's and tops (probably four 4x6 SLAP's) the same way. Offers the option to daisy chain in any order or run separately to each. Whatever the best solution is for the venue.

I do recall our conversation about long speaker wire runs and inductance rolling off the high end if the run is much over 60' IIRC. I'm not sure yet what number of what length cable's I'll make. What do you suggest? How would you portion this out?

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Re: What's to chat about?

#428 Post by SethRocksYou » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:35 pm

Charles Jenkinson wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:36 am
Rejoicing with you Seth!

...I'll maybe upgrade mine to proper cable some day.
Sounds like maybe we've been doing the same thing, using standard speaker wire. If you were closer I'd be happy to split it with ya. C'mon over. LOL

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Re: What's to chat about?

#429 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:26 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:11 pm
So, this is the first speaker wire I've had that's appropriate for pro audio. My intention is to use it the way the speaker plans suggest and I'm open to other options.

This first sub is going to get accompanied by a pair of 2x6 SLAPs and is going to be a gift for my dad. I'm not sure yet what number of what length cable's I'll make. What do you suggest? How would you portion this out?
There are many ways to run speaker cables. If you are always going to split subs and you want to run one cable to handle the sub and top combo, then using 4 conductor works fine. You can grab the extra two wires to run the tops.

If you are clustering your subs - then using the 4 wire can be advantageous in getting more amp channels to the cluster with less wire. However, that's only going to consist of a couple of cables long enough to get from the amp rack to the subs. All of the other speakers don't need the 4 wire cables.....it's a waste.

So, the real question is, what is your setup going to be? How many subs/tops? How often will you be splitting subs?

I prefer to use 2 conductor cable - it's smaller and easier to handle and store than 4 wire. It allows me to use any cable, anywhere, for any use. The wiring scheme is the same for every cabinet. It allows you to use the cheaper NL2FX connectors (exact same as NL4s but with just two spades).

The real question is whether you need the 4 conductor at all. With these systems, it can be used in 4 ways:

1. Bi-amping main cabs (rare)

2. One pair for mains, one for subs - this means always splitting subs and either splitting the cable into two separate pairs or using the 2+/- connectors. This means having the mains use the 2+/- all the time. Cuts down on interchangeability of cables. I hate having dedicated cables and trying to keep them straight.

3. Running multiple amp channels to subs. If you can't run a 4 ohm load and daisy chain two speakers, then using a 4 wire cable would be good - but I'd split the wires and use two connectors on each end....that allows you to keep the 1+/- in play on every cab and not have to use the 2+/-.

4. Powershading tops can be done with 4 wire cable - whether using the 1 and 2 connectors or just splitting the cable like the subs above.

I abhor using the 2+/- side of a connector for the kind of systems that we build. It locks you into pretty much the same setup every time and you'll either have to build special jumpers from cab to cab (2+/- on one end and 1/- on the other) or have your tops wire to the 2 pins.

I prefer every cable be able to do every job and the one I choose will be based on length, not special use.

Now, all that said - I do have two 4 conductor cables that I built especially for the gigs I do in the park every year where you use all the subs and split them. I peeled back the jacket and used heat shrink to isolate the pairs. They are marked blue and red on each end. The split is long enough on the speaker end to reach both the middle cab and the top cab of the stack. The bottom cab is daisy-chained to the middle cab. All cabs use 1+/-. One cable is 45 feet long and one is 15 feet long. These were specifically built for this show and where the amp rack and the stacks are located.

On to your situation. If you are going to split subs or run a lot of channels to at least 4 subs clustered, then build a couple of 4 conductor cables. One long and one short - the amp rack is always going to be closer to one stack than the other.

With the other 440 feet of cable? I'd sell it and buy some 2 conductor. Then make the following:

2- 50 footers
1- 35
2- 30
2- 25
2- 20
2- 15
2- 7 for sub patching
2= 2 for top patching

Of course, depending on how many monitors you are running, you may want some more of varying lengths.....spend some time with what your stage layout will typically look like, the build accordingly - along with several spares of varying lengths. Always use the shortest length possible - it keeps the stage clean.

This is all pretty general conversation.....it really depends on the system you build and how you want to setup and run it.

That's my 2 cents......or maybe more like a buck-fifty....

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Bruce Weldy
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Re: What's to chat about?

#430 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:34 pm

oh, and get a couple of these....


https://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-n ... e--092-196

No matter how many cables you build, one day you'll end up needing one of these adapters to get to where you are going. I always have a couple in my Go Bag for sound jobs. Rarely have I ever needed them with my rig as I have a lot of speaker cables of many lengths, but I've had to drag 'em out with other people's systems to save the day when they just don't have long enough cables to do the job.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

SethRocksYou
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Re: What's to chat about?

#431 Post by SethRocksYou » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:54 pm

Drilled and cut holes for the hardware in panel 8. The panel is just mocked up in the photo. It's not installed yet.
20200318_171812.jpg
Cut the hole for the Top Hat Pole Mount. Didn't have a drill bit large enough (1¾"), but luckily the router circle jig went small enough to take care of it.
20200318_175354.jpg
Bottom view of top hat placement
20200318_175646.jpg
I decided on putting only one connector in the top.
20200318_183439.jpg
Drilled holes for connectors in the mouth and ran all the wiring.
20200318_181433.jpg
This wire is a little clown shoes large for this purpose. Oh well.

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Re: What's to chat about?

#432 Post by SethRocksYou » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:13 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:26 pm
...That's my 2 cents......or maybe more like a buck-fifty....
Wow! I'll let some of those options marinate for a bit. Thanks for the awesome write-up Bruce! :thumbsup:

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Charles Jenkinson
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Re: What's to chat about?

#433 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:14 am

SethRocksYou wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:35 pm
Charles Jenkinson wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:36 am
Rejoicing with you Seth!

...I'll maybe upgrade mine to proper cable some day.
Sounds like maybe we've been doing the same thing, using standard speaker wire. If you were closer I'd be happy to split it with ya. C'mon over. LOL
I'd love to meet up some day.

Same as I want to send my lad over to work with Grant for a few months - find out how real men live.

It's all on the bucket list, for when normal life ceases. Wait a minute.... :fruit:
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded
2xT30

Words&graphics - Audio&Acoustics - Hardware&DSP; 3 different paradigms.

Grant Bunter
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Re: What's to chat about?

#434 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:06 am

Charles Jenkinson wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:14 am
Same as I want to send my lad over to work with Grant for a few months - find out how real men live.
:confused:

If you're meaning me Charles, I'm an empty nester, my kids have left home...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Re: What's to chat about?

#435 Post by SethRocksYou » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:30 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:26 pm
...Of course, depending on how many monitors you are running, you may want some more of varying lengths...
Was thinking I'd do 8 conductor wire and SpeakOn's for stage monitors and be able to get 4 independent mixes on one cable run.

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