Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

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Bruce Weldy
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#106 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:58 pm

RYNO20 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:30 pm
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 pm
I haven't used those, but seeing the latch release I would think they must lock.
They lock but not tightly like the straight ones
Did you get authentic Neutrik connectors? Is the dish connector real Neutrik too? There's a lot of copy-cat crap out there.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#107 Post by RYNO20 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:16 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:58 pm
RYNO20 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:30 pm
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 pm
I haven't used those, but seeing the latch release I would think they must lock.
They lock but not tightly like the straight ones
Did you get authentic Neutrik connectors? Is the dish connector real Neutrik too? There's a lot of copy-cat crap out there.
Says Neutrik and Liechtenstein .
The tab on the straight ones is .200 wide and only has .003 clearance, the tab
9 that locates in lock) on 90 degree ones is .188 thick and has .015 clearance, wiggle room , wow.
If you see how they are built the long .090 dia. Pins make the contact on the male part is not much surface area, the spiral raised section on the receiver is not much area to contact, add up the tab lock being smaller and etc equals bad design. IMHO.

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7567
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#108 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:25 pm

RYNO20 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:16 pm

Did you get authentic Neutrik connectors? Is the dish connector real Neutrik too? There's a lot of copy-cat crap out there.
Says Neutrik and Liechtenstein .
The tab on the straight ones is .200 wide and only has .003 clearance, the tab
9 that locates in lock) on 90 degree ones is .188 thick and has .015 clearance, wiggle room , wow.
If you see how they are built the long .090 dia. Pins make the contact on the male part is not much surface area, the spiral raised section on the receiver is not much area to contact, add up the tab lock being smaller and etc equals bad design. IMHO.
[/quote]

Interesting.....I've never used any of those....don't like the price and most everything I have has and inset plate - not sure if they would even fit.

Too bad it's not a good connector. I've yet to run across a Neutrik product that wasn't top-notch.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#109 Post by RYNO20 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:44 pm

B8DB24EE-6AE0-4DCD-A350-90D07CC38B7D.jpeg
3B43C5CB-BC0D-47D9-89BB-7024096697CF.jpeg
BE3DFF95-0EF4-4FD7-A6CC-E5439F8EFD8D.jpeg
Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:25 pm
RYNO20 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:16 pm

Did you get authentic Neutrik connectors? Is the dish connector real Neutrik too? There's a lot of copy-cat crap out there.
Says Neutrik and Liechtenstein .
The tab on the straight ones is .200 wide and only has .003 clearance, the tab
9 that locates in lock) on 90 degree ones is .188 thick and has .015 clearance, wiggle room , wow.
If you see how they are built the long .090 dia. Pins make the contact on the male part is not much surface area, the spiral raised section on the receiver is not much area to contact, add up the tab lock being smaller and etc equals bad design. IMHO.
Interesting.....I've never used any of those....don't like the price and most everything I have has and inset plate - not sure if they would even fit.

Too bad it's not a good connector. I've yet to run across a Neutrik product that wasn't top-notch.
[/quote]
B8DB24EE-6AE0-4DCD-A350-90D07CC38B7D.jpeg
3B43C5CB-BC0D-47D9-89BB-7024096697CF.jpeg
BE3DFF95-0EF4-4FD7-A6CC-E5439F8EFD8D.jpeg
One of mine is reset because I was possibly going to lay it on its side and V=plate 2nd one. Others are vertically challenged, one for horns one for woofer, always keep color coded and simple. Never tried pass thru and 4 wire cable, permanent fixed.
The grey colored one is all plastic and tight , the others are metal locking bar and are loose even some of the straight ones I have are loose.
I’m going deep diving on this cause I’ve had problems with connections and always thought it was the wire. Also I’m using #1 pozidriv tool not a #1 Phillips.
Hope mixing nl2fc and nl4mpr matters?

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7567
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#110 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:10 pm

RYNO20 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:44 pm

Hope mixing nl2fc and nl4mpr matters?
That's not a problem at all. Years ago the old style NL2 panel mounts wouldn't take an NL4, but those days are long past. NL2FC is exactly the same as the NL4 - just 2 conductor instead of 4. Nowadays, all NL2 and NL4s play together. Just not NL8 - different animal.

Probably half my cables are NL4 and half NL2FC. All panel mounts are NL4. Never a problem.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Seth
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#111 Post by Seth » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:21 pm

Personally, I'd contact them. They seem like a company that cares about the quality of their product and just may not be aware of a manufacturing flaw.

https://www.neutrik.com/en/contact/contact-form
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#112 Post by RYNO20 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:22 pm

Seth wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:21 pm
Personally, I'd contact them. They seem like a company that cares about the quality of their product and just may not be aware of a manufacturing flaw.

https://www.neutrik.com/en/contact/contact-form
Not a bad idea, thanks I will.

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#113 Post by RYNO20 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:43 am

Update Neutrik connection is perfect.
This morning I took all the receivers out and was going to test the loose problem. Turns out the 3 receivers were an off brand , wow human error again. I had stripped old speaker cabs for years keeping hardware etc. but used these 3 pieces because of size and not looking any further. I’ve only bought Neutriks for years knowing the cheap ones are just that.
So now all are replaced and functioning as the great product Neutrik is.
Going thru inventory today to put on EBay .

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7567
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#114 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:48 am

RYNO20 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:43 am
Update Neutrik connection is perfect.
This morning I took all the receivers out and was going to test the loose problem. Turns out the 3 receivers were an off brand , wow human error again. I had stripped old speaker cabs for years keeping hardware etc. but used these 3 pieces because of size and not looking any further. I’ve only bought Neutriks for years knowing the cheap ones are just that.
So now all are replaced and functioning as the great product Neutrik is.
Going thru inventory today to put on EBay .
Great news! My faith is restored....

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#115 Post by RYNO20 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:57 pm

Question??

I’ve been studying the SPL charts and need an education on how to use them.
I’ve only figured that to look at crossover points and Db levels and straighter lines .

Reason being that’s how I determined to build the T48 36 wide Lab 15 sub. There was a SPL chart comparing the T48 to my peavey SP 118 and I’m very satisfied in my choice.

Now I want to choose a top and I’m leaning towards DR280 because of the chart . Yes a few have advised it’s way too much , but what does that really mean ?
I’m using a DriveRack dbxpa2 with my iPad to tune and it really is a great way to experiment .
I’m using way too much amplifier watts compared to what the DRs will need and there aliment and curved horn are great.
All comments are welcome.

Grant Bunter
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#116 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:03 pm

Look here:
https://billfitzmaurice.info/DR280.html

If you were to draw a pencil line across the SPL chart shown, roughly halfway between the peaks and troughs, it would be around 107.5dB 1W/1m
Add another cab (because you'd want right and left), add +6dB. So average SPL for the 2 cabs 1W/1m is 113.5dB

Now look here:
https://billfitzmaurice.info/T48.html
Do the same thing with the pencil line, between say 35Hz and 100Hz and your average SPL is around 103.5 dB 1W/1m.

Just on average SPL alone, the 2 x DR280's are twice as loud as the sub. You would need to build another 3 subs to keep up.
Or start messing with gains, which alters the crossover point, and/or EQ, which alters phase.

The DR200 has an average SPL of about 104dB 1W/1m for 1 cab. 2 would be plenty for your needs. Or 2 Otop12's...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#117 Post by Tom Smit » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:35 pm

Grant, don't forget about the Equal Loudness Curve
TomS

Grant Bunter
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#118 Post by Grant Bunter » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:33 am

Tom Smit wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:35 pm
Grant, don't forget about the Equal Loudness Curve
Glad you mentioned it Tom!
It should always be considered.
On the link you provided the equal loudness curve cites perceived SPL and
when presented with pure steady tones
.
I've always struggled with equal loudness curves because of that, because music, live or recorded is anything but pure steady tones.

Since, by nature, SPL charts can only be generated across all the frequencies a driver or cab can reproduce, they have to be produced with, at a minimum, a cascade of multiple tones, in a sweep. They might be pure, but not steady.
I've never been quite sure if that then eliminates the equal loudness curves from the equation, but that's a philosophical discussion that might well clutter this thread.

What I can see though, based on what I said before, is , if we assume a crossover point of 100Hz between subs and mains, playing music, and average SPL for the two different cabs, with DR280's, 101Hz will be twice as loud as 99Hz if measured.

Once measured, that will alter perception.
Or, you might not even have to measure to come to the same conclusion...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#119 Post by RYNO20 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:03 am

Grant Bunter wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:33 am
Tom Smit wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:35 pm
Grant, don't forget about the Equal Loudness Curve
Glad you mentioned it Tom!
It should always be considered.
On the link you provided the equal loudness curve cites perceived SPL and
when presented with pure steady tones
.
I've always struggled with equal loudness curves because of that, because music, live or recorded is anything but pure steady tones.

Since, by nature, SPL charts can only be generated across all the frequencies a driver or cab can reproduce, they have to be produced with, at a minimum, a cascade of multiple tones, in a sweep. They might be pure, but not steady.
I've never been quite sure if that then eliminates the equal loudness curves from the equation, but that's a philosophical discussion that might well clutter this thread.

What I can see though, based on what I said before, is , if we assume a crossover point of 100Hz between subs and mains, playing music, and average SPL for the two different cabs, with DR280's, 101Hz will be twice as loud as 99Hz if measured.

Once measured, that will alter perception.
Or, you might not even have to measure to come to the same conclusion...
Ok, digesting this at breakfast coffee the closer the average SPL is, the cab will be a better match.
Yes I read about the equal loudness curves wow.
How can I measure what I have? I like tools.
Thank you for your explanation it’s becoming clearer.

Alright looked them spl charts again (after one coffee) it seems that even Otop 12 if I put the 3012 in it will be too much.wow my head hurts.
DR200 with basic driver might be ok.

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7567
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#120 Post by Bruce Weldy » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:01 pm

You have a driverack.....you can adjust there. OTops are an easy build and sound great.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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