First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
Hello, fellow BF'ers. I can say that because I just completed my first build!! Yessir friends, it was a religious experience. As many have said, it's addicting and I can attest to that; I'm itching to make more sawdust, but stuff like family and gigs keep getting in the way.
Anyway, I thought I would pass on some thoughts to noobs from a noob while it was fresh in my mind; sorry for the length.
- Much of the advice you will see here is "in the plans". Bill has already stated these things in the forum and in the plans many times, so my first bit of advice is to read the plans...a lot.
- Next, build all the little doodads and doohickeys shown in the plans. A circular saw sled will make your life so much easier. I'd suggest 4' and 2' versions. Just build them and don't argue with me. Don't forget straight edges, too. Next, you get the panel cutting jig for a big, fat goose egg if you buy multiple plans. Even if you only buy 1 plan, spend the extra $1.95 you cheapskate!! Trust me, it's worth it. I looked at many other panel cutting jigs on the internet after building Bill's and they don't compare.
- You can never have too many clamps...seriously. 1 footers, 3 footers, and C clamps will make your life soooooo much easier. You don't need to spend a fortune.
- Read the forum as much as you read the plans, maybe more. BF, his authorized builders, and frequent contributors are a wealth of knowledge and will answer your questions with a ridiculously fast turnaround.
- Use the recommended drivers. A lot of thought has been put into which ones to use. If you really MUST use that XYZ speaker that's been lying around in the basement for 10 years, ask on the forum, but please post the Thiele/Small parameters; don't make folks hunt for them.
- When trying to figure out which design to build, please describe your needs in depth. Include types of gigs you do (DJ or live sound), size of room, size of crowd, how much pack space you have, and your electronics (power amps, sound board, processing, DSP, etc...).
- When building, take Bill's advice "in the plans" and go slow. My goal was to do one panel a day. Laugh all you want, but when you hit the panels that require braces, you won't be laughing any more. If you get frustrated, walk away. On my T39 build, I hit panel 8 (the back) thinking I was an hour or 2 away and got frustrated when I found it was more like 4-6 hours. I walked away for 2-3 days and that cleared my head.
- Use PL Premium and make sure every panel has squeeze out. If it doesn't, run a bead down each side of the panel. It's FAR easier to fix this during the build than after. Air leaks will ruin all of your hard work, so be diligent.
- Have available a full printout of the plans, a separate printout of the cut sheets, and a seperate printout of the joint locations/angles/panel order. I found myself constantly flipping back and forth in the full printout and it was a nuisance.
- A second note about air leaks, the driver access cover and jack plate were major problems for me. For the access cover, seal the joints between the access hole and flange with PL or caulking. In addition, put gasket tape on the flange. For the jack plate, I used Plumber's Putty and made sure there was squeeze out. Doing this increased DB dramatically by eliminating air leaks.
- The plans recommend marking your panels on one side, clamping the 2 sides together, and then drilling the screw holes through both. Knowing that I am a less than stellar woodworker, I knew my panels wouldn't be square enough for this to work. I saw this next tip mentioned on the forum (apologies to the original smart person, I've forgotten your name): before gluing and screwing the second side, lay it on top of the panels, temporarily screw it down, and then trace the panels by reaching into the horn mouth (this will be the "outside" of panels 5, 6, 7, 9, and 11). Next, reach into the driver access hole with a pencil and trace (this will be the "inside" of panels 1, 2, and 3). Unscrew the side and fill in the other lines. Drill your holes. I found this worked quite well and only missed on 1 or 2 screws.
- Finally, buy kits from one of the fine folks on this board. I purchased mine from Leland Crooks' speakerhardware.com and I had everything I needed except for the wood. And you won't get the parts any cheaper. Believe me, I looked.
How does it sound? Loud and clean, very "HiFi". Once all my air leaks were fixed, this thing was rocking. It's hard to believe all that low end is coming from 2 10" speakers in a 75 pound box. And then I faced it to the wall. Bill talks a lot about boundary loading, but it has to be experienced first-hand. It's, in essence, 6db louder, but my subjective opinion was the low end went from tight and punchy to tight, punchy, and "bigger". From what my tiny brain can understand, horns like boundary loading so just do it.
Read...read...read, buy a kit, and then make some sawdust...slowly. You'll be happy you did.
Anyway, I thought I would pass on some thoughts to noobs from a noob while it was fresh in my mind; sorry for the length.
- Much of the advice you will see here is "in the plans". Bill has already stated these things in the forum and in the plans many times, so my first bit of advice is to read the plans...a lot.
- Next, build all the little doodads and doohickeys shown in the plans. A circular saw sled will make your life so much easier. I'd suggest 4' and 2' versions. Just build them and don't argue with me. Don't forget straight edges, too. Next, you get the panel cutting jig for a big, fat goose egg if you buy multiple plans. Even if you only buy 1 plan, spend the extra $1.95 you cheapskate!! Trust me, it's worth it. I looked at many other panel cutting jigs on the internet after building Bill's and they don't compare.
- You can never have too many clamps...seriously. 1 footers, 3 footers, and C clamps will make your life soooooo much easier. You don't need to spend a fortune.
- Read the forum as much as you read the plans, maybe more. BF, his authorized builders, and frequent contributors are a wealth of knowledge and will answer your questions with a ridiculously fast turnaround.
- Use the recommended drivers. A lot of thought has been put into which ones to use. If you really MUST use that XYZ speaker that's been lying around in the basement for 10 years, ask on the forum, but please post the Thiele/Small parameters; don't make folks hunt for them.
- When trying to figure out which design to build, please describe your needs in depth. Include types of gigs you do (DJ or live sound), size of room, size of crowd, how much pack space you have, and your electronics (power amps, sound board, processing, DSP, etc...).
- When building, take Bill's advice "in the plans" and go slow. My goal was to do one panel a day. Laugh all you want, but when you hit the panels that require braces, you won't be laughing any more. If you get frustrated, walk away. On my T39 build, I hit panel 8 (the back) thinking I was an hour or 2 away and got frustrated when I found it was more like 4-6 hours. I walked away for 2-3 days and that cleared my head.
- Use PL Premium and make sure every panel has squeeze out. If it doesn't, run a bead down each side of the panel. It's FAR easier to fix this during the build than after. Air leaks will ruin all of your hard work, so be diligent.
- Have available a full printout of the plans, a separate printout of the cut sheets, and a seperate printout of the joint locations/angles/panel order. I found myself constantly flipping back and forth in the full printout and it was a nuisance.
- A second note about air leaks, the driver access cover and jack plate were major problems for me. For the access cover, seal the joints between the access hole and flange with PL or caulking. In addition, put gasket tape on the flange. For the jack plate, I used Plumber's Putty and made sure there was squeeze out. Doing this increased DB dramatically by eliminating air leaks.
- The plans recommend marking your panels on one side, clamping the 2 sides together, and then drilling the screw holes through both. Knowing that I am a less than stellar woodworker, I knew my panels wouldn't be square enough for this to work. I saw this next tip mentioned on the forum (apologies to the original smart person, I've forgotten your name): before gluing and screwing the second side, lay it on top of the panels, temporarily screw it down, and then trace the panels by reaching into the horn mouth (this will be the "outside" of panels 5, 6, 7, 9, and 11). Next, reach into the driver access hole with a pencil and trace (this will be the "inside" of panels 1, 2, and 3). Unscrew the side and fill in the other lines. Drill your holes. I found this worked quite well and only missed on 1 or 2 screws.
- Finally, buy kits from one of the fine folks on this board. I purchased mine from Leland Crooks' speakerhardware.com and I had everything I needed except for the wood. And you won't get the parts any cheaper. Believe me, I looked.
How does it sound? Loud and clean, very "HiFi". Once all my air leaks were fixed, this thing was rocking. It's hard to believe all that low end is coming from 2 10" speakers in a 75 pound box. And then I faced it to the wall. Bill talks a lot about boundary loading, but it has to be experienced first-hand. It's, in essence, 6db louder, but my subjective opinion was the low end went from tight and punchy to tight, punchy, and "bigger". From what my tiny brain can understand, horns like boundary loading so just do it.
Read...read...read, buy a kit, and then make some sawdust...slowly. You'll be happy you did.
T39 - Dual BP102 23"
AutoTuba
J12 x 2 - Deltalite 2512
O12 - Dual BP102
AutoTuba
J12 x 2 - Deltalite 2512
O12 - Dual BP102
- LelandCrooks
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Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
Sticky worthy.
If it's too loud, you're even older than me! Like me.
http://www.speakerhardware.com
http://www.speakerhardware.com
Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
The method I used was to secure some sort of clear, plastic sheet on top of where the second side will go, and use a marker to trace on the plastic on top of all the panels. Remove the sheet, place the 2nd panel in place, put the sheet back on top and drill holes on the lines. Built 2 T-24's and didn't miss once!!! (It went pretty fast, also.)before gluing and screwing the second side, lay it on top of the panels, temporarily screw it down, and then trace the panels by reaching into the horn mouth (this will be the "outside" of panels 5, 6, 7, 9, and 11). Next, reach into the driver access hole with a pencil and trace (this will be the "inside" of panels 1, 2, and 3). Unscrew the side and fill in the other lines. Drill your holes. I found this worked quite well and only missed on 1 or 2 screws.
Can't take credit for this one, Bill and someone else posted something to this affect awhile ago, and it was a great idea, also.
Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
- The plans recommend marking your panels on one side, clamping the 2 sides together, and then drilling the screw holes through both.
I've roughly terminated my KappaPro 12 loaded 22" T39 yesterday to the point I could test it. More pics and info on its own thread once it looks more presentable (still the glue squeeze-outs and all... but couldn't resist to hear it). Anyway just a few comments on the advises here.
I've been blessed to be allowed to use a really nice table saw bench, and with all panels being square and true, my build went as a breeze.
I didn't use any virtual second side, and before I glued the side panel, to my delight, I saw that all of my initial screw holes were all meeting the wood of the panels inside. Beginner's luck maybe...
Actually, it was not so much of a great surprise as I used this second side to periodically check that the added panel was not off by much, and that there was wood in front of every hole.
I've always put the braces once the panels were fixed, so I could just cut braces to size, out of 1/2" ply, swiss cheese them, glue their edges, wedge them in place, with one or two brad nails to hold them in place while the glue cured. That was really easy. I was quite intimidated by all the comments here about "I wouldn't imagine bracing without dadoing..." but unless I missed something fundamental, there was nothing to be worried about.
A great experience so far.
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Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
+1 on the bracing, I cant imagine the time to cut dado's.
- Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
Almost none. If you have a table mounted router with a fence it takes about ten seconds to dado the parts. Immediately after cutting to size on the table saw zip them over the router table. If you have your router table mounted in the extension wing of your table saw as I do the process is swift and simple.DJ Big Ronn wrote: I cant imagine the time to cut dado's.
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Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
This sounds like the perfect justification for a 2nd router, permanently installed in a table.
My biggest worry is that when I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.
- Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
If you do make it a 3HP with half-inch collet bits, smaller doesn't cut it.bgavin wrote:This sounds like the perfect justification for a 2nd router, permanently installed in a table.
OTOH 3HP is too unwieldy for free-hand. I've got a 2HP for that, but still using 1/2" collet bits, which run far smoother and cooler than 1/4".
Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
The problem is most router tables don't have a fence that will set 7" +/- from the bit. Instead, get a small table saw with a dado blade. Pick up a used $50 saw on craigslist and add an inexpensive wobble blade for about $20. They aren't very accurate, but for this application it doesn't matter. The blade will last a lot longer than a router bit too.bgavin wrote:This sounds like the perfect justification for a 2nd router, permanently installed in a table.
Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
I agree. When I was looking for a usable router table, I found they were too small and flimsy. I ended up making one out of baltic birch, which doubles as a run out table for my little table saw.Tim A wrote:The problem is most router tables don't have a fence that will set 7" +/- from the bit.
Tomorrow I'm going to stop procrastinating - WB
- Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
That's why mine is in my table saw wing, where it uses the same fence as my saw.WB wrote:I agree. When I was looking for a usable router table, I found they were too small and flimsy. I ended up making one out of baltic birch, which doubles as a run out table for my little table saw.Tim A wrote:The problem is most router tables don't have a fence that will set 7" +/- from the bit.
Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
as someone with no woodworking experience or tools...could you compile a quick list of what is needed to complete this build?
i don't want to spend TOO much on tools but i will buy it if its necessary and will make my life easier.
how many clamps do you think i would need?
i don't want to spend TOO much on tools but i will buy it if its necessary and will make my life easier.
how many clamps do you think i would need?
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Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
A circular saw, a straight edge (or sled) to guide your circular saw, a jig saw, a drill, and a sander is the minimum list. If you use screws, no clamps will be required.coupon wrote:as someone with no woodworking experience or tools...could you compile a quick list of what is needed to complete this build?
i don't want to spend TOO much on tools but i will buy it if its necessary and will make my life easier.
how many clamps do you think i would need?
Builds:
T-39
DR 280
Wedgehorn 8
Omni 12
SLA
TAT
TLAH experimental
T-39
DR 280
Wedgehorn 8
Omni 12
SLA
TAT
TLAH experimental
Re: First Build Experience: T39 with dual bp102's, 23" width
oy, thats definately going to add to the costs T.T ah well