DR-200-250 A/B

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Tim A
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DR-200-250 A/B

#1 Post by Tim A »

Ok, there are several people asking for an A/B between the two. I'm going to do this Sunday afternoon. It will be all by ear, because that's what counts.

If any other forum member lives in the area (SE MI) and wants to come over and witness this you'd be welcome. I'd like to have more ears involved to keep this unbiased and in-check. Please PM to contact me for directions, no emails. Bring beer. :D If you're not a forum member, don't ask.

Here's what I'll be doing:

1-250 Vs. 1-200
1-250 Vs. 2-200
2-250 Vs. 2-200
2-250 Vs. 3-200

This will be with no subs. After that I'll add the subs and see what happens. If I'm feeling particularly spunky I may add the 4th 200 just for shits-n-giggles.

Once complete results will be posted in this thread.

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klocwerk
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#2 Post by klocwerk »

Can you come to Boston and do that please?
Would appreciate it... :lol:


Actually, any chance of doing an OT12 while you're at it? I'm weighing the OT12 vs the DR200 at the moment and would love to hear about an A-B, even second hand...

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Tim A
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#3 Post by Tim A »

klocwerk wrote: Actually, any chance of doing an OT12 while you're at it? I'm weighing the OT12 vs the DR200 at the moment and would love to hear about an A-B, even second hand...
It's possible!

horst
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#4 Post by horst »

any chance of a live video stream? :wink:

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thijs666
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#5 Post by thijs666 »

horst wrote:any chance of a live video stream? :wink:
LOL :D . I'd like to see your pc-speakersystem :wink:

bgavin
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#6 Post by bgavin »

Mine are HPM-100 12" reference monitors driven by a 60w Yamaha stereo cage amp.
My biggest worry is that when I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.

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Tim A
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#7 Post by Tim A »

Ok, the results are in. DJPhatman was kind enough to lend me his ear. Of course he had ulterior motives, trying to decide himself which cab to build! I think when all said and done we walked away with some very useful information, and had a few surprises along the way.

To perform our by-ear tests, I ran a CD into an input on my board. The signal was mono to ensure the same information was getting to both channels. Both channels were EQ'd dead flat, with the exception of 40Hz down which was removed from the signal.

Drivers in the test cabs are as follows: DR-250, Deltalite 2510; DR-200, Beta 8; OTop 12's, S2012; Omni 10's, Deltalite 2510.

Piezo arrays are as follows:

DR-250, crossfired; DR-200, 2 crossfired, 2 straight; OTop 12's, straight; Omni 10's, crossfired.


The first test was a single 200 Vs. a single 250.

The very first thing we noticed is that the DR200 sounds better with no EQ. With the EQ flat, it beats the 250 soundly. There is a cohesiveness, or clarity to the sound that the 250 doesn't have. After some discussion we agreed the best way to describe the sound was 'tight', The 250 goes lower and is slightly louder. It took about a 1.5dB boost in the gain on the 200 for our ears to call them equal in volume. Once the 250 was EQ'd, they sound very similar, the 250 still winning in lows, the 200 still winning in overall clarity and sound.

Second test: 2-200's Vs. 1-250.

200's win, easily. The lows started to come out more, and the mutual coupling was very apparent. In order to keep things as even as possible, we cut the gain on the 200 input by 3dB since they were receiving (almost) twice the power. They still won.

Third test: 2-200 Vs. 2-250's.

Now things are starting to tighten up with the 250's. They still wanted some EQ to flatten response, but far less. The mutual coupling between these cabinets was in-your-face-obvious. The 250's won in volume and lows. The 200's needed a gain boost of 1.5dB to equal them. However, the clarity of the 200's was impossible to ignore, and they took that category for the third straight test.

Fourth test: 3-200's Vs. 2-250's.

This was very, very close. 3 DR-200's equal 2-250's in volume, and it's possible they even have a slight edge. DJphatman thought the 200's were a bit louder, I couldn't decide. But they're equal at the very least. This was done with the gain cut by 1.5dB to take into acccount 2.6 ohm load from the third cabinet. The lows were very close as well, it would've been tough to make a call.

Fifth test: Adding subs.

For this one we simply used a pair of Tuba 24 MkII's, 16" wide and ran them with two of each cabinet. Once the subs were added, it was a toss-up. Both system were absolutely killer, neither holding an advantage over the other.

Sixth test: 4 DR-200's and subs

We did this strictly for shits-n-giggles since there was nothing to compare them with. The result? IT WAS INSANELY LOUD!

Summary: For single cabinets the 250's have the edge in volume and bass. If you're running without subs, or want to cover a 200 seat room with a single pair of cabs, the 250's win. Once you start stacking them the 200's have a huge advantage in size, weight, and build cost.

The one single unwavering factor that showed up in every single test was the absolute crystal-clear sound that the DR200 provided. It was there every time, regardless of the setup.

And here's a pic of them together. The few inches doesn't sound like much, but setting next to each other the difference is obvious.

Image

Now for other tests.

DR-200 Vs. Omnitop 12

Once again clarity goes to the DR-200. The Otops had a slight advantage in the lower mids, but also needed a bit of EQ. Volume between the two is virtually identical. The DR won this by a nose in overall sound, however, if you never sat them next to each other to A/B, you'd never know the difference. Choose either one and you won't be wrong.

Omni10 Vs. 2-OmniTop 12's

DJPhatman was kind enough to bring his Omni 10 over so we could see how it stood up. The result was surprising based on the SPL charts. We both expected the O10's to beat the 2-12 OTop in low end, but the OTops won out. That's where it ends though, the Omni 10's clearly had the advantage from the mids and up. Volume was comparable.

Well, that's it. I'm satisfied that we did this as fairly as possible, taking care to adjust gain as needed so the larger array didn't hold an unfair power advantage. I'm sure you could get closer with the right equipment, but I'm not sure you'd get different results.

horst
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#8 Post by horst »

how profoundly interesting
good work boys

It would have been really interesting if you had a couple of DR280 as well
I suppose there's always next weekend

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Alan Star
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#9 Post by Alan Star »

Yes, thanks a lot guys, I imagine dr200's & t39's would make an awesome compact system.

horst
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#10 Post by horst »

so did you have the new mods (the impedance compensation and throat filler) in these?

that the DR200 sounded better than the DR250 without eq is a big surprise, it was certainly one of the reasons why I was less tempted to go DR200

Slim
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Brilliant.

#11 Post by Slim »

Thank you for that guys. Excellent work.

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SoundInMotionDJ
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#12 Post by SoundInMotionDJ »

Awesome. That is the exact comparison I needed to push me to building DR200's. The side by side photo was the clincher.

Thanks,
--Stan Graves
10 T39S + 10 DR200 + 1 T48

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DJPhatman
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#13 Post by DJPhatman »

Sorry, the b-day party ran late! :D

As Tim so eloquently pointed out, what surprises we heard!

And a BIG thank you to Tim for the ear, er, I mean, eye-opening testing.
I was very surprised by most of the results. All I can say is I totally agree with Tims results. Really makes my choice easy now.

Thanks again, Tim!

Edit: And don't forget about the weight difference, too!
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

DaveK
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#14 Post by DaveK »

Thanks for the interesting review. Could you clarify the section below? Were you comparing a single O10 with two 10" drivers to a single OT212 with two 12" drivers? When you say the O10 had the edge, was that in volume or percieved sound quality?
Tim Ard wrote:Omni10 Vs. 2-OmniTop 12's

DJPhatman was kind enough to bring his Omni 10 over so we could see how it stood up. The result was surprising based on the SPL charts. We both expected the O10's to beat the 2-12 OTop in low end, but the OTops won out. That's where it ends though, the Omni 10's clearly had the advantage from the mids and up. Volume was comparable.

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Tim A
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#15 Post by Tim A »

alanstar wrote:Yes, thanks a lot guys, I imagine dr200's & t39's would make an awesome compact system.
Actually, we did a show last weekend with 2-200's and a single T-39. You need to run the sub a bit higher due to the 10 ohms, but it was a great sound.

horst wrote:so did you have the new mods (the impedance compensation and throat filler) in these?
Excellent question! I meant to post that and forgot. The DR200's do have the low pass filter installed, but they don't use a throat filler, too small of an area to make a difference. The 250's do not have the mods.
DaveK wrote:Were you comparing a single O10 with two 10" drivers to a single OT212 with two 12" drivers? When you say the O10 had the edge, was that in volume or percieved sound quality?
A single O10 to two 1-12 OTops, which would be the same as a single 2-12 OTop.

As I said, volume was comparable. The edge would be in overall sound, although it was slight. Truthfully, this one would be in the ear of the beholder. If you like more mids, the 10 would be the choice. For a warmer sound with more pronounced bass, the OTop would be it. The one thing we couldn't really compare was the high end. The 10 was crossfired, so there were a lot more piezos hitting us than the straight arrayed 12's. I'm certain it would've made a difference, but I can't say if it would've pushed the OTops to be the clear winner.

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