Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Otherwise the plan would be 4 15" LAB loaded T60s horizontally across the ground facing the photographer of this image. At least 12' from the left wall. About right where the Google Map icon is, mouths in plane with the green fencing (that would be temporary peeled back).
I think using the wall could get us more output, but I'm always a little confused by how to place them.
Thanks in advance for any input.
Happy Saturday!
4 T60's
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
- Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Place them as a block of two above two no more than 2.5 feet from the wall.
Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Thank you Bill!
Which of these would be best? I do not really understand the concept, so your description left a lot of room for imagination with my ignorance involved.
Quick sketch. X signifies mouth of T60.
A: B: C:
Which of these would be best? I do not really understand the concept, so your description left a lot of room for imagination with my ignorance involved.
Quick sketch. X signifies mouth of T60.
A: B: C:
4 T60's
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28620
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Aiming at the wall may work slightly better. The main thing is having them close enough to the wall.
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
The second and 4th pictures look the same to me....is that ideal?
Joe
Joe
Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Yes, they are the same. The 4th image is the "attachments" window. I may be using the forum incorrectly. I was just trying to upload the first 3 images in-line.Fastskiguy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:15 pm The second and 4th pictures look the same to me....is that ideal?
Joe
4 T60's
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
One interesting thing about this wall loading is that our audience is so used to be right up on the subwoofers and only the depth of the woofers being between them and the DJ. Placing them near the wall will be quite a change.
What do you think the estimated gain will be? Compared to using the 2 x 2 stack about ~ 12' from that wall facing the crowd as normal?
What do you think the estimated gain will be? Compared to using the 2 x 2 stack about ~ 12' from that wall facing the crowd as normal?
4 T60's
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28620
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
You may gain as much as 6dB. That's the equivalent of doubling the cab count to eight. There's absolutely zero benefit in aiming them at the crowd. The output pattern is 360 degrees below where the summed mouths are less than a wavelength in dimension. A wavelength at 100Hz is 11.25 feet.
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
1st a question
as long as the mouth is within 11 feet of the wall he’s good to 100hz? No matter the direction? He could have the stage (or dj stuff) close to the wall and maybe make it.
Then a comment
It just seems like the direction the mouth is firing should matter. I’m not a disbeliever (or whatever you call it….maybe science denier?) but it would “make sense” that the sound comes blasting out of the mouth like with higher frequencies.
Joe
as long as the mouth is within 11 feet of the wall he’s good to 100hz? No matter the direction? He could have the stage (or dj stuff) close to the wall and maybe make it.
Then a comment
It just seems like the direction the mouth is firing should matter. I’m not a disbeliever (or whatever you call it….maybe science denier?) but it would “make sense” that the sound comes blasting out of the mouth like with higher frequencies.
Joe
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Not quite.Fastskiguy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:06 pm 1st a question
as long as the mouth is within 11 feet of the wall he’s good to 100hz? No matter the direction? He could have the stage (or dj stuff) close to the wall and maybe make it.
The subplacement sticky mentions the prime directive.
Being that the mouth of the cab is less than 2 feet or more than 8 feet from a boundary.
Nearing 100Hz probably won't be affected, but down near the bottom end of that cabs response will suffer due to frequency cancellation...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
No. When the mouth is 1/4 wavelength away the reflection will be 180 degrees out of phase, causing a cancellation. When it's more than 1/4 wavelength away you don't full boundary loading. Therefore you want to be closer than 1/4 wavelength. At 100Hz that's 2.8 feet, so 2.5 feet is safe.Fastskiguy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:06 pm as long as the mouth is within 11 feet of the wall he’s good to 100hz?
It would make sense if sound waves worked the same way that light waves do. They don't. People who have not learned how sound waves work (and you have to be taught, because it's not the least bit intuitive) set up speakers as if they were lights, under the mistaken assumption that speaker dispersion patterns work like lights. This fundamental flaw in their understanding of the physics of sound is responsible for the two most common errors in speaker placement: Tops placed side by side, and tops placed over subs. It doesn't help that the speaker industry panders to their desires with trapezoid tops for outward splaying and sockets atop subs for pole mounting mains above them. Neither of those features should have ever been offered, but rather than educating their customers as to what they really needed they took the money and gave their customers what they wanted.it would “make sense” that the sound comes blasting out of the mouth like with higher frequencies.
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Ah OK, I get it, less than *1/4th* wavelength so less than 1/4th of 11.25 feet or shoot for 2 1/2. Hopefully the crowd will appreciate the sound and accept the new layout
Joe
Joe
Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Won't it feel weird with so much level on the left side?
Tops are Danley Sh69 for anyone wondering.
4 T60's
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
2 Danley Sound Labs SH69
Ashley Protea
QSC PLX2
Crown CDi
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28620
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
It would feel weird if you could tell where the subs are, but you can't. They're not directionally locatable. For that to happen there has to be a significant phase difference as the wave arrives at each of your ears. There isn't, the wavelengths are too long.
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Re: Tuba 60 Outdoor Wall Loading
Can you tell us if the areas with what looks like mesh in your rendering is actually mesh, or solid wall with dressing?
To get boundary loading you need a solid wall, not part solid wall(s) with openings in spots, is why I'm asking.
There's no dimensional figures, so hard to know, but your Danley tops look to be too low...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...