Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

Combining subs, tops and all the rest of your kit.
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Seth
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#31 Post by Seth »

Fastskiguy wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:06 pm I see you are using a narrow kerf blade in your calculations, 1/16th inch.
The kerf is set to 0.125... 1/8"

The side panel mod shares that kerf, half of the eighth (1/16th ) on one panel and the other 16th on the other panel... maybe that's what makes it seem like I used 1/16" as the kerf?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Seth
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#32 Post by Seth »

Alright, creative credit to Grant! Some interesting results. Since panels 8, 10, and 12 are all about a half inch oversize, I took an eighth off, still leaving them three eighths oversize for cutting to final size just prior to assembly.

This allows the sides and every part of the build to remain their standard dimensions. AND an 18.75" wide cab can be made from two 60x60 sheets now! It appears there may still be enough left to use for bracing too. If not, use nice stuff in the mouth and pretty much any sort of scrap for inner braces that are out of sight.

18.75" Wide Cab Cut Sheets
Screenshot (233).png
Screenshot (234).png


Or if there's a reason a 16" cab is the maximum width you want to build..
Screenshot (235).png
Screenshot (236).png


My opinion, always build as wide as you can, within your limitations. If the limit is keeping it on 2 sheets, go 18.75" wide.


.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Fastskiguy
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#33 Post by Fastskiguy »

Seth wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:28 pm
Fastskiguy wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:06 pm I see you are using a narrow kerf blade in your calculations, 1/16th inch.
The kerf is set to 0.125... 1/8"

The side panel mod shares that kerf, half of the eighth (1/16th ) on one panel and the other 16th on the other panel... maybe that's what makes it seem like I used 1/16" as the kerf?
Oh yeah, that's it.

Fastskiguy
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#34 Post by Fastskiguy »

Seth wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:18 pm Alright, creative credit to Grant! Some interesting results. Since panels 8, 10, and 12 are all about a half inch oversize, I took an eighth off, still leaving them three eighths oversize for cutting to final size just prior to assembly.

This allows the sides and every part of the build to remain their standard dimensions. AND an 18.75" wide cab can be made from two 60x60 sheets now! It appears there may still be enough left to use for bracing too. If not, use nice stuff in the mouth and pretty much any sort of scrap for inner braces that are out of sight.

18.75" Wide Cab Cut Sheets
Screenshot (233).png
Screenshot (234).png



Or if there's a reason a 16" cab is the maximum width you want to build..
Screenshot (235).png
Screenshot (236).png



My opinion, always build as wide as you can, within your limitations. If the limit is keeping it on 2 sheets, go 18.75" wide.


.
That is awesome! Thanks!!

Fastskiguy
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#35 Post by Fastskiguy »

How about DSPs, is there a budget option I should be looking for?

Rich4349
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Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#36 Post by Rich4349 »

Next challenge: using 4'x10' sheets, what's the next alignment of sheets per cab where you pick up enough for a "free cab"?
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

howiez
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#37 Post by howiez »

Fastskiguy wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:43 am I had decided to go small table tuba but after seeing this....T30! My decision now is....super sweet and $$$ baltic birch or el cheapo sheathing.
Thanks!! And if you have any budget choices for a top I'd love to hear about 'em
Joe
Joe I'm late to this party but looking forward to watch your build. I like the T30 idea you settled on.

I personally built a T48 and used it for a few years in my garage, way overkill. One was fine, built the second to use for a wedding or two, and just coz. I also built a pair of DR200's for that same wedding or two and it all ended up in my garage. It's loud, ask my neighbors how I know. For sure the DR's need EQ, and I don't go loud much, as no DSP in the garage. I won't use my rack of equipment in the dust.

As for wood, BB is the bomb, but to cut cost, Arauaco is not bad. If you have a Menards by you, SKU is 125-1062 IIRC. I built both my T48s out of it, and two THT's. DR's were BB scraps from Menards, and they cut so much better. But again, on a budget, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Arauaco.

Fastskiguy
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#38 Post by Fastskiguy »

howiez wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:06 am
Fastskiguy wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:43 am I had decided to go small table tuba but after seeing this....T30! My decision now is....super sweet and $$$ baltic birch or el cheapo sheathing.
Thanks!! And if you have any budget choices for a top I'd love to hear about 'em
Joe
Joe I'm late to this party but looking forward to watch your build. I like the T30 idea you settled on.

I personally built a T48 and used it for a few years in my garage, way overkill. One was fine, built the second to use for a wedding or two, and just coz. I also built a pair of DR200's for that same wedding or two and it all ended up in my garage. It's loud, ask my neighbors how I know. For sure the DR's need EQ, and I don't go loud much, as no DSP in the garage. I won't use my rack of equipment in the dust.

As for wood, BB is the bomb, but to cut cost, Arauaco is not bad. If you have a Menards by you, SKU is 125-1062 IIRC. I built both my T48s out of it, and two THT's. DR's were BB scraps from Menards, and they cut so much better. But again, on a budget, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Arauaco.
DR200's and two T48's in the garage, wow, can you say overkill? But if you're gonna do it, might as well overdo it, right?

I used Arauaco from Menards awhile back when I made a tht, it seemed OK at the time although I have access to a proper woodshop that carries nice BB and that stuff is really fantastic. I looked up the nearest Menards (I've moved since making the tht) and it's about 621 miles away so I am taking this as an obvious sign that I should hit the easy button, pay them money, and use the BB.

I think I'm leaning towards making an omni top 12 with the inexpensive GRS driver referenced back on page 1 https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-12PT- ... quantity=1 If that goes well then I can try for the tuba 30 after that if I need more than the anarchy tapped horn I've already got.

I hope your neighbors like the same type of music as you!

Joe

Grant Bunter
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#39 Post by Grant Bunter »

Fastskiguy wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:42 pm If that goes well then I can try for the tuba 30 after that if I need more than the anarchy tapped horn I've already got.
Absolutely forget the idea of mixing two different designs in the same band pass.

Phase response in each design will be different, so there is a high likelihood that using the 2 together will make things worse, not better, due to cancellations...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Fastskiguy
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#40 Post by Fastskiguy »

Grant Bunter wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:02 am
Fastskiguy wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:42 pm If that goes well then I can try for the tuba 30 after that if I need more than the anarchy tapped horn I've already got.
Absolutely forget the idea of mixing two different designs in the same band pass.

Phase response in each design will be different, so there is a high likelihood that using the 2 together will make things worse, not better, due to cancellations...
In place of vs. in addition to, gotcha!

I need to go back to the original question here....what do you guys think I should make for the top? The omnitop 12 with that budget driver would be awesome and cheap but omnitop 8 is so cute and seems to have a nice flat frequency response. I've already made two SLAs and two TLAHs and I'd just like to try something different than another line array. I'm not in a hurry...should I consider DR200? Or is this kinda like mercedes vs. bmw vs audi, there are difference but compared to my chrysler minivan, any would be perfectly fine.

Joe

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Tom Smit
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#41 Post by Tom Smit »

Since there are very few OTop8s around............
Buuuuuuuuttt, if you have a lot of time, and want a challenge, go for the DR200 with melded arrays.
TomS

Grant Bunter
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#42 Post by Grant Bunter »

Fastskiguy wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:28 pm I need to go back to the original question here....what do you guys think I should make for the top? The omnitop 12 with that budget driver would be awesome and cheap but omnitop 8 is so cute and seems to have a nice flat frequency response. I've already made two SLAs and two TLAHs and I'd just like to try something different than another line array. I'm not in a hurry...should I consider DR200? Or is this kinda like mercedes vs. bmw vs audi, there are difference but compared to my chrysler minivan, any would be perfectly fine.
Joe,
You're on a bit of a journey now.
You've built some things, you've got the bug, you want to build more.
That's really cool...

I just want to throw this out to you:
If you stack another on the top of the first with any of Bill's designs, you have a line array with increased height!
There's a reason that's a goal.
As part of your learning journey, I urge you to read up about line source vs point source in sound, particularly in reference to pattern control (pattern control is mentioned in the blurb on the sales page of the Otop8).

It doesn't matter which you build really.
Certainly, the Otop8 and the SLA Pro require less EQ than the rest, but that doesn't mean they require no EQ.
If you think you can build DR's you should, if not, Otops.

Using your last line of thinking above, I ended up deciding to build the Flagship (DR250), so the DR200 would be the Escort or Destroyer?
The SLA Pro and the Otop 8 will be as loud as the DR200.
The Otop 12 budget option may struggle a little to compete. I can't recall if the budget driver has a required rising response to 2.5K ish, and if it doesn't, it means it needs to be EQ'ed in with boost. That naturally leads to other changes.

There comes a point where a decision needs to be made, not by us, but by you, about what to build.
All we can do is support you, and provide information.
It's only after you've decided and built that you can work out if you did the right cab...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Seth
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#43 Post by Seth »

Fastskiguy wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:28 pm ...should I consider DR200?
I agree with Grant, "...If you think you can build DR's you should..." :thumbsup::thumbsup:

If you're dead set on choosing one of the designs that utilizes the melded piezo array, the DR200 would certainly be the one... if you're willing to build it. Howiez made his with budget, $23, GRS 8PT-8 drivers and it seems to have been a successful venture for him. Even with the recommended driver, the DR200 is the least expensive pro cab design in the lineup. It's difficult to say for sure, with lumber prices all over the place at the moment. But, prior to "the pandemic", they could be made for about $190 each, plus the cost of incidentals, consumables, and paint. Two DR200 would need 1.5 (2) 5x5 sheets of ½" and a little more than half a sheet of 1/8" bendy ply. One 18¾" T30 and two DR200's could be made out of 3 sheets of ½" and one sheet of bendy. But, it doesn't look like there would be enough ½" to also have some left for bracing in the T30. A 16" wide T30 and pair of DR200's would also need 3 sheets of ½" and one bendy. But, still no left overs for bracing. May as well go bigger, if you wanted to plan the build this way, combined.

Side note for you and any other future readers about the 8" GRS driver mentioned above: It's Fs is below spec, Qts is over spec, and it does not have the the rising response in the mid frequencies that the plans specifically call for. So, they're not considered suitable by the standards outlined in the plans. If you want to achieve the advertised results, use the recommended drivers or drivers that closely match the specs and description. That said... you could still certainly use EQ to dial in your intended target response, like Howiez did. It needs EQ even if you use the recommended driver anyway. And, since DR200's (and any of the designs in contention) will have the potential to be gross overkill for your particular application and intended use, it's not like you're going to need every last bit of sensitivity you can get out of them anyway. But really, only you know if you'd rather have the right driver in there for $90 each, or if it's worth it to you to compromise performance a bit to save $134 on the pair. Non pro use, garage system, relatively low volume needs... I think I may be swayed to save the dough, personally.

A pair of DR200's and a T30 would be a killer setup and require almost no power to get to the listening levels you mentioned. If you're willing to run the DR's in mono, a single amplifier with about 100wpc and built in DSP would likely more than adequately cover your power and signal processing needs. One channel to the DR's and the other channel to the T30. A Crown XLS1002 or even a Behringer NX1000D would be perfect. The whole package would be a great impromptu house/yard party system too. Certainly something you could be proud of.

Here's a little reading for you; HowieZ DR200 Build
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Fastskiguy
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#44 Post by Fastskiguy »

Loved the build thread and the idea of going DR200. I'm gonna read more build threads and read the plans and see if I can wrap my head around building it. ATM....gotta admit, it's iffy. Angles here, tapers there, curves galore, and some wood bending thrown in for good measure. The builds seem to take months! But I've got plenty of time to take it one step at a time and it looks like it's kinda like eating an elephant. On the other hand I don't want to embark on an impossible mission.

Currently have borrowed an SLA from the home theater and have it in the garage with the anarchy tapped horn. The humble SLA sounds so good! Compared to a "typical speaker" (i.e. the overnight sensation) it's night and day.

Sure appreciate the comments guys :)

Joe

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Got 'em all! Now....sla vs jack vs omni vs dr vs other

#45 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Fastskiguy wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 9:11 am Loved the build thread and the idea of going DR200. I'm gonna read more build threads and read the plans and see if I can wrap my head around building it. ATM....gotta admit, it's iffy. Angles here, tapers there, curves galore, and some wood bending thrown in for good measure. The builds seem to take months!
It took me maybe two weeks to build the first one, working after I got home from my day job and on weekends. And I didn't have step by step plans showing me how. :shock:
There's nothing terribly difficult, just take it one step at a time, and be sure of what you're trying to do before you do it.

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