THTLP or TTLS?

For livingroom sound better than in a theatre.
Post Reply
Message
Author
RayE
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:43 pm

THTLP or TTLS?

#1 Post by RayE »

Hello everyone! I am long time fan of Bill's designs and have built quite a few of them over the years. My wife and I are currently building a new house, so I'm (naturally) planning out a home theater setup. I used to have a dedicated HT room in another house with a projector and all the toys, but now I will be setting up an "everyday" system built around a very large flat panel TV. The objective is to keep it simple, clean, and awesome. You might think of it as a "sleeper" in that it won't "look" like a theater, but it will sound like one! (well...better actually). I built TLAHs and an SLA a long time ago and I plan to re-use them here. I have a plan for "hiding" the SLA, but the TLAHs will be a challenge to make blend in... The rear surrounds are being built in and wires were pulled after framing.

That brings me to the sub. I built the BFM mains and center for the space I had before, and the little subwoofer I built even longer ago simply couldn't keep up. So... I built a subwoofer from plans I found on the internet. It was a tapped folded horn. .... It was a GIANT tapped folded horn. Understand that there was no WAF for me to consider at the time. And honestly it was literally too big and heavy, (and ugly, which was my fault) to be acceptable even to me. When we sold that house, it was left behind. I should have at least kept the driver out of it, but I just needed to get rid of it. I wouldn't be able to use it the currently projected space anyway. Even with all that, it hurt my soul to see it go. That thing could get INSIDE you.

Now: I'm going to build a new largish sub to go in the new place and disguise it as a nice, if not "fine", piece of furniture. WAF will not be an issue if what I have in my head actually ends up on the floor. There will be no placement debate - there is exactly one place for it in the room, and that's directly under the TV screen, horizontally on legs. It will look like a cabinet /tv stand, but the tv will be wall mounted. The SLA will be tucked into a center cubby/shelf on that sub. Heard but not seen. The TLAHs? As I said, a challenge. But I'll figure something out. (if you have thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them. Post pics if you've successfully hidden or disguised them. I love the look of them personally - mine are the triangular cabs with the angles built in. The classic TLAH style to me.)

The point of this post is this: Should I build a large long style TT, or a small THTLP. I was settled on a 22" wide TT with a 10" driver, but then was reading this forum and found that with another 12" in length (5' vs 6'), I could build the THTLP and get respectable results below 30hz. AND I could reduce the width from 22" to as low as 15 or 16". I want to be able to make pants flap with it on demand to show off, but most listening will be low enough volume to enable conversation. My wife and I have been married less than a year, and we still talk. :P

So - what do you all think? I can't really think of a downside to the THTLP in this case. Will the narrower (15-16") but longer THTLP outperform a 22" TT? Performance to me means clear, accurate, tight, focused, insert other words to describe good bass, and extension as low as I can go. Don't want muddy or boomy. I had already decided that 22" on the TT would be acceptable, should I build the THTLP wider than the minimum? I believe wider will make it more sensitive lower, but I do want to be able to move it without a forklift. I know this is all very subjective, but I'd love to hear your thoughts!!
Thanks!!
RayE
TTLS - In Planning Stage
1 - SLA
2 - TLAH
1 - Omni Tallboy
1 - LilMike's LilWrecker

User avatar
Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: THTLP or TTLS?

#2 Post by Tom Smit »

Hi! Nice to see you finally posting! :D
My vote is for a 22" THTLP since you had already decided that was a permissible width. The TT is no slouch buuuuut..... :lol:
TomS

RayE
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: THTLP or TTLS?

#3 Post by RayE »

Yeah - as I was writing that part I realized that I’d already decided 22” was okay for the TT. But I had the bit set already that didn’t intend to build another behemoth!! :-)
TTLS - In Planning Stage
1 - SLA
2 - TLAH
1 - Omni Tallboy
1 - LilMike's LilWrecker

RayE
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: THTLP or TTLS?

#4 Post by RayE »

I've decided to go with the smallest TTLS I can make - 8" driver and 11"panels for a 12" wide cabinet. I'm expecting to feel a great deal of satisfaction from seeing/hearing the small box rattle windows. Though I'll admit that WAF was the dominant factor... :-) It will make concealing it inside a piece of furniture easier.

As I'm doing the detailed study and planning I ran across a couple of things that I believe are small errors in the TTLS plans. On page 5 the cutlist specs: panels 2, 4, 5, & 6 all appear to be 1/4" longer than they should be. I am doing the 90 degree mouth option on page 16, so there is room for me to be confused. But I dimensioned the sketchup models and it confirmed the errors. Or at least confirmed them to me. Can someone please check that and see if I'm missing something? (Thank you!)
ex: Panel 2 in the plan says 12-3/4 long, but it should be 12-1/2.

The drivers I'm considering:
SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-4
fs = 27Hz
Qts = 0.34
Vas = 37l
xmax = 12mm (shown as 24mm "linear coil travel (p-p) ", is that a correct interpretation?)
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/p ... 0rev.1.pdf

And the MCM 55-2421
https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/3686240.pdf

There's a substantial price difference in these drivers, but the SB looks "better" to me with the cast spider and poly cone. And the specs are similar with the SB having a slightly lower fs, a bit more xmax, & 10l more Vas. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Ray
TTLS - In Planning Stage
1 - SLA
2 - TLAH
1 - Omni Tallboy
1 - LilMike's LilWrecker

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: THTLP or TTLS?

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy »

RayE wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:54 pm
As I'm doing the detailed study and planning I ran across a couple of things that I believe are small errors in the TTLS plans. On page 5 the cutlist specs: panels 2, 4, 5, & 6 all appear to be 1/4" longer than they should be.
You always want to rough cut the panels a little long in order to cut them to final length later.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

RayE
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: THTLP or TTLS?

#6 Post by RayE »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:03 pm
RayE wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:54 pm
As I'm doing the detailed study and planning I ran across a couple of things that I believe are small errors in the TTLS plans. On page 5 the cutlist specs: panels 2, 4, 5, & 6 all appear to be 1/4" longer than they should be.
You always want to rough cut the panels a little long in order to cut them to final length later.
Granted. But every other panel is dimensioned accurately. I don't think there should be any fudge built into the plans.
TTLS - In Planning Stage
1 - SLA
2 - TLAH
1 - Omni Tallboy
1 - LilMike's LilWrecker

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: THTLP or TTLS?

#7 Post by Bruce Weldy »

RayE wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:37 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:03 pm
RayE wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:54 pm
As I'm doing the detailed study and planning I ran across a couple of things that I believe are small errors in the TTLS plans. On page 5 the cutlist specs: panels 2, 4, 5, & 6 all appear to be 1/4" longer than they should be.
You always want to rough cut the panels a little long in order to cut them to final length later.
Granted. But every other panel is dimensioned accurately. I don't think there should be any fudge built into the plans.
The actual dimensions are inside the plans. The cut list is just for getting panels to manageable size. You don't want to be trying to cut angles on a panel while wrangling a large piece of plywood.

When I build my own cutlists for projects, I get the panel width which is set in the plans, then cut down to the final size from those precut panels.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 2731
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: THTLP or TTLS?

#8 Post by Seth »

Read page 5 again.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Post Reply