Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

For livingroom sound better than in a theatre.
Message
Author
JensToft91
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:43 am

Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#1 Post by JensToft91 »

Hi all.

I know the topic seems weird. But there's a party in the neighborhood (nothing extreme) - and they don't have any music.
I offered to setup my living room speakers(Paul carmody's classix 2.5, and pair them with my table tuba (11 inch, Dayton 8").

I know it shouldn't be used for live sound - but I'll set a safe limit on the amp, and hope it's enough. I actually only expect it to be played at dinner-volume.

But.. how would you set it up? Crossover from mains at 120 Hz, highpass the sub at 35 Hz or so?

Bonus question! How come a table tuba has similar output compared to a T24, looking at SPL charts? Is it the drivers maximum capability, that makes the T24 better outside?

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy »

JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:54 am
I know it shouldn't be used for live sound -

But.. how would you set it up? Crossover from mains at 120 Hz, highpass the sub at 35 Hz or so?
Live sound is with real players. Just because it's outside doesn't make it live sound. Just set it up like you do indoors. Keep the volume down and you'll be fine. The reason for the charts looking similar is that the Table Tuba's chart is inside with boundary loading built in if I remember correctly.

But, outside at dinner levels - it will be fine. Set it up and have a good time.....just not too good of a time or you'll be getting a new driver for it. :mrgreen:

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

JensToft91
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:43 am

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#3 Post by JensToft91 »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:07 am
JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:54 am
I know it shouldn't be used for live sound -

But.. how would you set it up? Crossover from mains at 120 Hz, highpass the sub at 35 Hz or so?
Live sound is with real players. Just because it's outside doesn't make it live sound. Just set it up like you do indoors. Keep the volume down and you'll be fine. The reason for the charts looking similar is that the Table Tuba's chart is inside with boundary loading built in if I remember correctly.

But, outside at dinner levels - it will be fine. Set it up and have a good time.....just not too good of a time or you'll be getting a new driver for it. :mrgreen:
Damn! I was really conscious of not making that mistake. I often call it live sound, when I mean pro-sound. Or you know, loud music outside, with no boundary effect.

But thank you! I'll just set it up as usual, and set the sublevel with a multimeter in-hand, and limit the receiver when the sub reaches 16 volt or so with a bass heavy test song.

The charts I'm comparing are both with no boundary loading. That's why I'm confused :roll:

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#4 Post by Bruce Weldy »

JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:23 am
The charts I'm comparing are both with no boundary loading. That's why I'm confused :roll:
Sorry, I thought the HT charts were with loading......nevertheless......

Remember that the charts are showing response at 1 watt/1 meter. Because the driver in a T24 can take a lot more power than the driver in a Table Tuba, that's why the T24 can outperform the TT. Especially outside with no boundary loading.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

JensToft91
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:43 am

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#5 Post by JensToft91 »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:55 am
JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:23 am
The charts I'm comparing are both with no boundary loading. That's why I'm confused :roll:
Sorry, I thought the HT charts were with loading......nevertheless......

Remember that the charts are showing response at 1 watt/1 meter. Because the driver in a T24 can take a lot more power than the driver in a Table Tuba, that's why the T24 can outperform the TT. Especially outside with no boundary loading.
That means it doesn't really make sense for me to build a dedicated outdoors setup. I'll never buy big amps anyway, it it doesn't outperform the table tuba anyway, I can just use that one :hyper:

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 28620
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

What charts are you looking at that show the TT and T24 to be comparable? Above 50Hz sure, but not below that. Not that it matters with music, which is mainly above 50Hz.

JensToft91
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:43 am

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#7 Post by JensToft91 »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:27 am What charts are you looking at that show the TT and T24 to be comparable? Above 50Hz sure, but not below that. Not that it matters with music, which is mainly above 50Hz.
Oh wait. I remembered wrong. The TT looks like it more powerful than the T24 over all? Looking at SPL charts freestanding.

35 hz
TT 96
T24 90

40-60 hz
TT 93
T24 88

So about 5 dB more powerful overall.

Is that correct?

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#8 Post by Seth »

JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:54 am But.. how would you set it up? Crossover from mains at 120 Hz, highpass the sub at 35 Hz or so?
Hey Jens, good to hear from you buddy. :thumbsup:

If I were in your shoes, I'd likely Highpass at 45Hz. That'll cover 99% of music impressively well and it keep the excursion in check, should you get a little frisky with the volume knob and low low tunes.

Please, let us know how you ultimately set it all up and how well it works out for you. :thumbsup:
Last edited by Seth on Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#9 Post by Seth »

Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

JensToft91
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:43 am

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#10 Post by JensToft91 »

Seth wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:21 pm
JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:54 am But.. how would you set it up? Crossover from mains at 120 Hz, highpass the sub at 35 Hz or so?
Hey Jens, good to hear from you buddy. :thumbsup:

If I were in your shoes, I'd likely Highpass at 45Hz. That'll cover 99% of music impressively well and it keep the excursion in check, should you get a little frisky with the volume knob and low low tunes.

Please, let us know how you ultimately set it all up and how well it works out for you. :thumbsup:
Thank you, for remembering me! :)

I'll highpass at 45 Hz. Thank you!

And thanks for the chart, Bill! I was considering building a dedicated sub for the outdoors, but that doesn't really make any sense, when the TT performs that well. I'm so hung up on the very, very low notes, that I must be "ignoring" that output from 50hz and up. I guess it will show through when I get outside, as I don't expect those lows, and actually concentrate on the music I'm hearing.

I know it's off topic - but what could I build as a top for the TT, to have a little outdoor system? The SLA pro with two drivers?

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#11 Post by Bruce Weldy »

JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:20 pm

I know it's off topic - but what could I build as a top for the TT, to have a little outdoor system? The SLA pro with two drivers?
That sounds perfect to me. It's not going to be stupid loud or low - but a nice little system to listen to music with.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

JensToft91
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:43 am

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#12 Post by JensToft91 »

It suddenly hit me. Me and my friends build the boomimator (12v diy party boomblaster) that has 4 10 inch woofers mounted woofer-to-woofer with piezo tweeters. That beast is just tucked away in my friends garage. What a perfect opportunity to dust it off, and pair it with the table tuba. And if I need more, I'll pull out the THT.

If you don't know what a boominator is, Google it. It has quite a bit of history. Designed by the guy who's know working as the audio engineer at SOUNDBOKS.

Speaking of Soundboks. How the hell does that thing put out 40 Hz at 120+ dB, if I remember correctly? It shouldn't be possible with 2 vented 10s, should it?

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#13 Post by Bruce Weldy »

JensToft91 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:57 pm
Speaking of Soundboks. How the hell does that thing put out 40 Hz at 120+ dB, if I remember correctly? It shouldn't be possible with 2 vented 10s, should it?
Couldn't find a chart on their site....but it did say frequency range down to 40hz....which usually means down 10db at that point. Doubt seriously that it could do 120db at 40hz.....or at any hz.... The one I looked at with 2-10s has 3-72 watt amps internally.

Never heard of 'em before....but then, there's a lot I've never heard of....

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#14 Post by Seth »

2x6 SLA Pro's are a pretty sweet deal. And they're versatile. Put them on poles separately, in the traditional 'one on each side' fashion, or stack them on a single pole for better throw. Splay them for wider coverage, even 180° for near 360° coverage (coverage in two different directions anyway). Plenty of output for your needs. They'll likely not need too much power when matched up with a TT outdoors, But, they do require a bit of power to get them to the point of distortion. I find they play cleanly up to about 50-55 volts, where they just start to impart a little "loud sound".

Something I remembered, and something you should take into account about the chart I posted is, the TT is 4Ω and the T24/T30 cabs are 8Ω cabs. Assuming all the measurements were taken at 2.83volts, that would give the TT a 3dB head start compared to the others.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

JensToft91
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:43 am

Re: Setting up a table tuba outside, in a tent

#15 Post by JensToft91 »

I looked around for measurements of the Soundboks. I specifically looked for one the creator posted himself on a forum, without luck.
But a website reviews it, and the max volume they could measure was 110 dB, and a dynamic compression of -20 dB at 50 Hz, at max SPL. So it starts to make a bit more sense. It is loud for sure - but when it's turned up, it gets an annoying, thin sound.

Thanks for the description of 2x6 SLA's. Having the boominator, I'll use that one.
And sorry! I thought it was bill who posted the graphs, my mistake. It makes sense with the 4ohm/8ohm difference.

I know my topic flies in 50 different directions. I'm completely scatter-brained when it comes to sound. I really want to know anything, but I don't really need what I'm searching for. I'll stop my self now, and see how the TT actually performs outside in person.

Thanks for all your replies

Post Reply