First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

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Seth
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#16 Post by Seth »

Howie, tell me a little about your EQing. Did you EQ it flat, to a predetermined curve, or a custom curve?
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Seth
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#17 Post by Seth »

The reason I ask was prompted by the folowing;
howiez wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:16 am ...Other new stuff, pop, like Rihanna has plenty of fat bass to impress. I guess old stuff is not mixed that way because who knew? The subharmonic synth helps a bit, but I hate having to turn it off for newer stuff. Or maybe I don't have a handle on compression yet? I need a master class on that...
I used to EQ my system flat with pink noise. But, it was always thin on the bottom end and slightly bright on the high end with recorded content and I had to EQ a bunch of bottom into individual tracks for live performances. I did a bunch of reading, asked a lot of questions, got a lot of answers I didn't like hearing, and in the end tried some not-flat target EQ curves. Ever since then, I've really loved the way the system(s) sound, with either live or recorded sources, when tuned to the curve I posted earlier. Even older tracks sound fantastic. Nearly everything I play, I love how it sounds. Granted, I'm pretty sure nearly everything available digitally has been remastered, hiss removed, bass enhanced, and digitally corrected precision drum tempos. Everything sounds darn good, bass wise. Fat when it should, not fat when it shouldn't. 50's, 60's, 70's, etc.

I've never used any subharmonic synth to fatten things up. Never had the opportunity, but also haven't really had the need since EQing more bottom into the base tune either.

As far as compression, leave it off. I can't think of a real need for it on the regular. I did do a little search on it's uses for the main PA, and of coarse there are some practical uses. But, they're specific to individual applications and definitely not for a base tune, use everywhere, every time sorta deal.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#18 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Compression is a must with live sound, to level out the peaks, but recorded sound is already compressed, so you don't want to lose the dynamics.

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Seth
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#19 Post by Seth »

That's a good point. If a mixer didn't have ample compression or any compression at all, having the ability to apply some compression in the Driverack could indeed be handy solution.

And, for Howie's use, leave it off.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Bruce Weldy
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#20 Post by Bruce Weldy »

I'm not a big fan of compression.....I use it sparingly in live situations, but occasionally you have to in order to tame a vocal or tighten up bass or kick. But, I always do it at the mixer level....never on the driverack. All of the digital mixers have the ability to put compression on channels or on the Mix bus. Analog....you would have to use the driverack, but I'd be very gentle - maybe a 2:1.

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howiez
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#21 Post by howiez »

Seth wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:13 pm Howie, tell me a little about your EQing. Did you EQ it flat, to a predetermined curve, or a custom curve?
All I did Seth, was the AutoEQ on the PA2, 3 mike positions, the easy/simple one. It put in fairly flat "smiley face" or? I saw someone poke fun of here, the "everyones home EQ curve"? It was a slight bump in the sub bands, then a slight long/wide dip until the high end and a slight rise there, pretty equal to the low end hump. I had later dropped the 60 and 80 hz notches by cutting back on manual EQ 3db or so IIRC, but later removed those cuts(i put that in a post somewhere). I had a boundary node where I was sitting, but the bass sounded great in the rest of the pole shed. I honestly have felt the DR's sound really good out of the box. That may be my budget woofer is not as 'rising midrange response' as it needs to be. And perhaps the high end is a bit bright, but it's not harsh at all. My 24yo son loves the sound so I know either he doesn't have golden ears (I think he does) or it's not too bright. He is a classic/prog rock fan, so we've tried many together. Rush, Genesis, CCR, Styx, Night Ranger. We've tried all those with no complaints. I always worry my old ears slope off more than I think and I'm overcompensating with any EQ I put in. That's really why I didn't' do much so far.

I get the comments about recorded music being already compressed, so no maybe I won't need it. I wonder, can I compress classical/romantic era music to bring up the quiet spots a bit? Yes, I really do love to CRANK Strauss waltzes and Chopin piano pieces and my favorite, Rhapsody in Blue. That baby just SINGS on the DRs! That reminds me, I have not tried the 1812 overture yet. It sounds devastating on the THT, probably night quite as killer on the Titans, but I feel the top end will make up for it. My el cheapo in wall home theater speakers are no match for the THT levels in the house.

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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#22 Post by Bruce Weldy »

howiez wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:22 pm
All I did Seth, was the AutoEQ on the PA2,
While I don't have a PA2, I have all of the previous driveracks - and they all have target curves you can select. I've always used the one with a bump on the bottom end, a cut in the low mids then a gradual dive on the high end. What did you select for your curve? Or, did you EQ it flat?

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

howiez
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#23 Post by howiez »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:03 am
howiez wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:22 pm
All I did Seth, was the AutoEQ on the PA2,
While I don't have a PA2, I have all of the previous driveracks - and they all have target curves you can select. I've always used the one with a bump on the bottom end, a cut in the low mids then a gradual dive on the high end. What did you select for your curve? Or, did you EQ it flat?
Just the AutoEQ, then I did a 'custom' with two drops for the bass I later removed, so none user selected, and essentially flat after AutoEQ.

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Seth
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#24 Post by Seth »

Just so we're all on the same page, when we EQ flat, we adjust (or auto adjust) the EQ so the response is flat. The EQ isn't flat, the system response is flat.

The AutoEQ listens to the response and makes adjustments so the system response matches a specific target as closely as possible. I remember reading that there were different response curves available to choose from and Bruce just verified that. If you had the AutoEQ set to target a FLAT response curve, wait until you try the curve Bruce mentioned. By his description, it sounds similar to the curve I posted. It should make a huge improvement in how the system sounds and you shouldn't need the SubSynth after that.

In an effort to minimize my rack to a bare minimum, I sold off my DSP units (Behringer DEQ2496 & DCX2496) and am currently relying on the DSP that's integrated in my mixer and amps, which sadly do not have AutoEQ or AFS functionality. The amps do have the appropriate Brickwall Limiter though. Anyway... I could get fancy and use computer programs to help me analyze the system response (haven't yet, I intend to), but I've had very decent results with just a measurement mic and the spectrum analyzer in my digital mixer. It seems that relatively close to the target response curve is good enough to get fantastic results. Every once in a while I hear something stick out in a song and make an adjustment. But on the whole, it's good... Shit! I had a point to make when I started this little story, but I seem to have lost it. Crap. I'll post up if I remember what it is.

Find the curve Bruce is talking about and have the AutoEQ shoot for that, instead of flat. Or, use the spectrum analyzer and do it manually yourself.

Maybe that was my point? Hmmm.

More coffee please.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#25 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Seth wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:05 am
Find the curve Bruce is talking about and have the AutoEQ shoot for that, instead of flat.

Exactly.....do that.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

howiez
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#26 Post by howiez »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:48 am
Seth wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:05 am
Find the curve Bruce is talking about and have the AutoEQ shoot for that, instead of flat.

Exactly.....do that.
So I am EQing flat. Now you have me curious, how do I use AutoEQ to hit a 'target curve'? I don't remember seeing that option, but I was overwhelmed with setup/schedule. I guess I'd better run an AutoEQ in my driveway for practice and see. That being said, I'm not sure I need the EQ to bring much more to the party! Again, this setup is just awesome! OK, maybe I've been living under a rock. The store-bought home consumer electronics rock... I dunno, been toying with speakers since I was young and built my first cabs at 13 in middle school wood shop. Maybe what i'm trying to say is my stuff has always sounded fine to me, but Bills stuff, is light years beyond.

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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#27 Post by Bruce Weldy »

howiez wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:18 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:48 am
Seth wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:05 am
Find the curve Bruce is talking about and have the AutoEQ shoot for that, instead of flat.

Exactly.....do that.
So I am EQing flat. Now you have me curious, how do I use AutoEQ to hit a 'target curve'? I don't remember seeing that option, but I was overwhelmed with setup/schedule. I guess I'd better run an AutoEQ in my driveway for practice and see. That being said, I'm not sure I need the EQ to bring much more to the party! Again, this setup is just awesome! OK, maybe I've been living under a rock. The store-bought home consumer electronics rock... I dunno, been toying with speakers since I was young and built my first cabs at 13 in middle school wood shop. Maybe what i'm trying to say is my stuff has always sounded fine to me, but Bills stuff, is light years beyond.
Check page 16 and 27 of the manual......
• AutoEQ TARGET [RECOMMENDED PA CURVE, FLAT, REFLECTIVE ROOM]
When a sound system’s frequency response is flattened, it can sound a bit thin on the bottom end. The AutoEQ TARGET
option makes up for this by adding a bass boost. Select the RECOMMENDED PA CURVE option (this is the default
setting) to allow AutoEQ to automatically enhance the low end. Select the FLAT option if you want the system to be tuned
flat when running the AutoEQ Wizard. Select the REFLECTIVE ROOM option when operating a sound system in a room
with excessive acoustic reflections; this option will still apply bass boost, as well as a slight attenuation on the higher
frequencies to compensate for the excessive reflections.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Bruce Weldy
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#28 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Based on the info above....you may already be getting the PA curve since it's the default unless you've changed it to flat.

The PA2 options are a little different than the older ones, but it's still there.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

ketoet
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#29 Post by ketoet »

When the wife approves like that i would say mission accomplished 😁.
When setting up my system i used allegria from cirque du soleil.
For max bass spl i used the outsiders t78 remix from christian cambas. That really gets thinks shaking.
building BFM speakers isn't a hobby , it's an addiction

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howiez
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Re: First public run - informal wedding DR200 pair-Titan48 pair

#30 Post by howiez »

ketoet wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:00 am When the wife approves like that i would say mission accomplished 😁.
When setting up my system i used allegria from cirque du soleil.
For max bass spl i used the outsiders t78 remix from christian cambas. That really gets thinks shaking.
Thanks! I shall add those to my repertoire. My son HATES it when I play Centipede...

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