Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

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howiez
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Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#1 Post by howiez »

So I've finally procured all my gear (my wife hopes). I'm trying to use a Windows laptop with freeware DJ software. This I've connected to my equipment, I'll break it out below. I've watched a few videos on setting gain structure. I've scoured a few forums, and I'm still pretty sure I'm missing one big piece. I'm hoping after someone here comments I'll go DUH, that's it.

Asus Windows 10 laptop
3.5mm (1/8 plug) to L/R XLR cable.
Behringer Monitor 1 (I wanted a big external volume knob for easy turn down (ok or up).
DBX Driverack PA2 (input sensitivity set to .775v)
Crown XLS 1502 for tops (My DR200s)
Crown XLS 2502 for my subs (T48s)

I downloaded an mp3 of Pink noise 0dB. I also used the test tone generator in the Driverack, but I'm hoping to take into account the laptop volume. I've set the laptop volume to 100%, not getting a whole lot of level. The signal, 20 and 15 lights blink, don't think 10 ever lit up. Even with the pink noise generator in the DBX, set to 0dB. I read somewhere shoot for about -16db, so maybe that's where that 0dB and the 15 light line up?

Next oddity, is clipping. I'm seeing the clip lights on the DBX even at the above setting with it's own pink noise. So I go in the crossover for Low and High and turn down the output until it never blinks clip.

I ran the setup wizard to put in my amplifier(s) and it tells me to set the 1502 at 71% and the 2502 at 70%. Right, somewhere about 2 o'clock I guess. Then I put my meter on AC voltage, connect a short piece of speaker wire to the binding posts on the 2502, and into the alligator clips. I'm getting like 5 to 10v. Here I'm worried I'm gonna go over the 49v Seth computed for me. I can turn amp gain all the way up and only hit like 21v on the 2502.

I read another post here that said don't fuss with the gain in the crossover. Where else am I missing? I'm expecting far more than 10v. I'm suddenly feeling like I need a DI box on my input to bump the laptop up. Or a USB DAC?

HELP!

I gotta stick to building boxes,that I can do.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy »

The Monitor 1 is only seeing a -10db signal from your laptop. Since it's a passive volume knob, I'm guessing that's what it's sending to the driverack.

You need to get a dedicated mixer or one of these....https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... vel-driver

Either a mixer or one of the above devices will get you back up to +4db. Personally I'd use a mixer, then you can use a mic or other inputs should the need arise.

And forget what the driverack instructions say about gain. Turn your amps all the way up (hopefully, that's how you set the voltage for subs). Set the gains on the crossover section of the driverack to -0-, neither up or down. Then listen to the system and see if you need to make a minor tweak to either the highs or lows to even things out before setting the EQ.

And I don't know what you are using pink noise for other than on the driverack for setting the auto-EQ. You should have a 60hz test tone for setting the voltage limiters on the subs.

Once you do all of that, you should have plenty of drive without clipping anything.

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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#3 Post by Bruce Weldy »

By the way, with a mixer, you can do away with that Passive Behringer Monitor knob. You are in the pro world now, leave that consumer stuff behind.

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howiez
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#4 Post by howiez »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:30 pm By the way, with a mixer, you can do away with that Passive Behringer Monitor knob. You are in the pro world now, leave that consumer stuff behind.
Thanks Bruce. Well I don't think I'm in the pro world with my hodgepodge of gear, but ok!

I'm ok with a mixer, but I don't need 50 controls. I need one. Is there a mixer that simple? Or a way to bump my low level to pro level? DI boxes seem to cut things like guitars down, the opposite of what i need. And any small mixer I see seems to be geared towards one mic XLR input and nothing more, maybe one instrument.

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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy »

DI boxes don't cut things down, they turn an unbalanced signal to a balanced mic input signal. The device I listed takes that -10db and brings it up to +4. And yes, you are now in the pro world. :clap:

Any small mixer with a couple of mic inputs and some RCA inputs will do what you want. Spend a little more and get a Yamaha (or something like it) and stay away from the little Behringers...they use junk components in those. They work while they work, but when they go - you're stuck with no sound in the middle of a gig.

6 - T39 3012LF
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"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#6 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Something like this.....https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... nnel-mixer


Or this......with some reverb to make your voice sound a little better.....https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... th-effects

Neither of these have RCA or 1/8" inputs, so you'll need a 1/8 mini to dual 1/4" inputs.....like this....https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... in-ts-6-ft

They make cheaper cables, but for $10 extra you get a better cable.

6 - T39 3012LF
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Seth
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#7 Post by Seth »

We'll get ya there Howie :thumbsup:

Let's see where we're at before moving forward.

Try everything you just did, hooked up the same way, except this time gains all the way up on the amps and use a 60Hz sinewave instead of pink noise.

How many volts now?
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Seth
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#8 Post by Seth »

Bruce, if the Driverack has enough gain available, he should be able to go straight from the PC into the Driverack. No? I'd think it should be able to be done without a mixer.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

ACUA
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#9 Post by ACUA »

I started with a behringer mixer. I only regret it. I had a lot of issues that I could not resolve that all stemmed from a low grade mixer. I currently have a Yamaha unit and I love it. I personally like having a slide on my faders as supposed to twist pots. But the smallest Yamaha mixer will surely support your need.
Advanced Concepts Underground Audio

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#10 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Seth wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:25 pm Bruce, if the Driverack has enough gain available, he should be able to go straight from the PC into the Driverack. No? I'd think it should be able to be done without a mixer.
Oh, I'm sure you can do it. But, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Pro devices are designed to run balanced at +4db. You can starve them of signal and try to make it up with gain, but like any piece of gear - trying to make up for a shortfall will result in more noise.

A mixer has the gain necessary to get the laptop's signal up to where it should be before passing to the driverack. It does the same for a microphone. Would you plug a mic directly into a driverack's input? Of course not....and it's balanced - just doesn't have the proper impedance, nor signal strength.

There is no reason to spend thousands on building a sound system, then not give it the proper signal to run. Like building a hot rod, then watering down the gas before you pour it in.

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J_Dunavin
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#11 Post by J_Dunavin »

Late to the conversation, but are you using MIXXX? You will get so much better sound quality and usability if you run a USB sound device, like one of the ones listed on the wiki.
You will also get the desired output your looking for into the Driverack.
Im running mixxx on an old Ubuntu laptop with an even older Audio Kontrol 1. It’s a straight shot from the Audio Kontrol 1 to the Driverack and I have plenty of gain.
This will also get you a microphone in and headphone option for cueing, if your DJing

Hope that helps…
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Seth
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#12 Post by Seth »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:35 am Oh, I'm sure you can do it. But, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Pro devices are designed to run balanced at +4db. You can starve them of signal and try to make it up with gain, but like any piece of gear - trying to make up for a shortfall will result in more noise...
I disagree.

Yes, pro devices are designed to run +4dB balanced. That's done to keep EMI and RFI interference to a minimum over long cable runs.

In this case, any EMI or RFI inference that the 3.5mm TRS to XLR cable picks up would get amplified no matter where the signal gain is produced, in a mixer or the Driverack... same, same.

As long as there's no phantom power present, it's completely safe to components on both sides of the cable, unbalanced to balanced.

I might even argue, as far as noise is concerned, adding equipment in the signal chain is more likely to introduce noise.

Howie's system is 99.9% used as his garage system. While a whole complete DJ mixer and controller would be cool, it doesn't sound like that's the direction he's trying to take the system. $260 for a line driver would be a complete waste, unless there were some line noise picked up over a long cable run.

I was really asking, because you have firsthand knowledge of the Driverack, which I lack. I'm almost positive that it has input and output gain adjustability, but I've never used it and can't say for sure. I do know I can plug my phone/table/PC directly into my DSP integrated amps and drive them into clipping (no undesirable noise BTW). I honestly thought you were going to be a little more agreeable in the matter.


We should be able to get this system dialed in with the equipment on hand and it should sound fantastic. "Should" Howie get a mixer? If it were anything but a garage and BBQ system, yes, I'd agree with that. But, it's certainly not mandatory... IMO
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#13 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Seth wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:38 pm
Yes, pro devices are designed to run +4dB balanced. That's done to keep EMI and RFI interference to a minimum over long cable runs.
The fact that it's balanced is what allows the long cable runs. For example, mics can work fine on a 300ft cable run, but that's because it's balanced....it doesn't produce +4db. The signal strength comes from the devices putting out a hotter signal so that it has plenty of gain when it reaches the next piece of gear. So, balanced is one issue and signal strength is another. Although, both a mic level signal and a line level signal can both run long distances due to running balanced.
The preamp on a mixer is what amplifies that weak signal from a microphone to get it up to line level.


As long as there's no phantom power present, it's completely safe to components on both sides of the cable, unbalanced to balanced.
No question about safety, only signal strength.

I might even argue, as far as noise is concerned, adding equipment in the signal chain is more likely to introduce noise.
The noise I'm talking about is being introduced by having to increase gain to get the source up to line level inside the box.

Howie's system is 99.9% used as his garage system. While a whole complete DJ mixer and controller would be cool, it doesn't sound like that's the direction he's trying to take the system. $260 for a line driver would be a complete waste, unless there were some line noise picked up over a long cable run.
My memory isn't as good as yours. I didn't realize this was a garage system.....that obviously changes everything. So, mea culpa for my missing that - I'm sure that was discussed early in the thread.

I was really asking, because you have firsthand knowledge of the Driverack, which I lack. I'm almost positive that it has input and output gain adjustability, but I've never used it and can't say for sure. I do know I can plug my phone/table/PC directly into my DSP integrated amps and drive them into clipping (no undesirable noise BTW). I honestly thought you were going to be a little more agreeable in the matter.
Not trying to be disagreeable at all, just pointing out the proper way to do things so that it sounds better and won't lay down on you at a gig. It's a teaching moment for those who don't understand some of this. But, as I said earlier - I didn't realize this was just for blowing the doors off the garage.


We should be able to get this system dialed in with the equipment on hand and it should sound fantastic. "Should" Howie get a mixer? If it were anything but a garage and BBQ system, yes, I'd agree with that. But, it's certainly not mandatory... IMO
I agree. For personal use - wire it up and let it rip. Yes, there is gain available in the driverack. Turn up the amps all the way and adjust in the crossover section. If it's not working properly then - there's some other problem. The question I'd have is what kind of cable is running from the Big Knob attenuator to the driverack? Is it mini plug to a dual xlr unbalanced?
If it's mini to a single xlr - that may be part of the problem.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

howiez
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Location: Fox Valley, Wisconsin

Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#14 Post by howiez »

J_Dunavin wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:58 am Late to the conversation, but are you using MIXXX? You will get so much better sound quality and usability if you run a USB sound device, like one of the ones listed on the wiki.
You will also get the desired output your looking for into the Driverack.
Im running mixxx on an old Ubuntu laptop with an even older Audio Kontrol 1. It’s a straight shot from the Audio Kontrol 1 to the Driverack and I have plenty of gain.
This will also get you a microphone in and headphone option for cueing, if your DJing

Hope that helps…
I think MIXX is what I installed, as for USB sound do you mean like a Berry UMC204HD? I'm struggling with the WIKI to find balanced outputs and simple. I see the Berry has them, but maybe only 1/4? Why is it everyone puts XLR mic inputs on, but never XLR main out unless you spend 1k?

Thanks for the pointers!

howiez
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Re: Laptop to Driverack PA2 setup help (levels)

#15 Post by howiez »

OOF, I have a lot to answer.
Setup-wise I have a 3.5mm to dual XLR https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08859NMSZ?ps ... ct_details

into my big knob. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B62ZPYH?ps ... ct_details

Then dual XLR out to Driverack. I have the driverack set to -10db (with +4 i barely blink the blinkys).

I'll try 60Hz since wave from my PC next chance I get and report back my volts.

Yes, garage most of time, and actually that will run off a receiver and dual BASH sub amps. I wouldn't dare leave my Driverack and Crowns in there while i'm cutting BB for more cabs! When I use it for 2 weddings this summer, it'll be music only and VERY casual, i.e. anyone might play a song, which is why i shot for the big dumb knob. One venue it will be upstairs with a predetermined playlist, any my brother will monitor, during my sons wedding. The other wedding is at a cabin of a friend, and there it will be subject to drinking fingers. So i'll hide the rack best i can, and leave access to the laptop and big knob, or whatever i end up with after all this awesome advice.

That being said, I've been offered a Berry UB1204FX-PRO for free. I may try it, but I'm told there are issues. I like the Yamaha link, thanks Bruce! I was searching Guitar Center, and didn't come across any that simple. Amazon has crazy Chinese ones I'm afraid to spend 49.99 on.

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