T48 drivers 2022

[Camillo]

Thanks! Over here the drivers has raised more than the ply though but I hear you, i will consider that then. And try to find a Europe driver like the 3015 with a vd in between those other two.

The last thing I'd recommend is lower Vd, unless it's your only option due to cost. I'd rather spend more for high Vd and use half the number of cabinets. With the skyrocketed cost of plywood a high Vd driver rather than two low Vd drivers may prove the less expensive option anyway.

[Grant Bunter]

Thanks! Over here the drivers has raised more than the ply though but I hear you, i will consider that then. And try to find a Europe driver like the 3015 with a vd in between those other two.

For those of us outside the USA you can spend forever looking for budget options, searching specs, comparing, wondering etc.
I know, Australia has the same problem.

There is an old saying in the forum: "Buy once, cry once".

Have you gone through the plans and researched all the drivers listed in the plans and their availability and cost in Europe?
Most people would opt for the 3015LF, but the Ciare 12.00 is listed in the plans, and dual loading with 12's will beat the output of a single 15. Or single loading with 2 cabs.

Anyway, I did a quick search for the Ciare 12 in Europe.
I found it here:
http://www.paluidsprekers.nl/12.htm

On the same page is a Sica 12 @ 199Eu. Ever so barely out of spec for Qts @ O.24, Xmax is Ok as is Fs.

Mind you, the Ciare is only 70Eu more...

[Camillo]

Hi Grant!
Thank you, i just started considering the 2x12 the low sensitivity of the ciare does mean it requires some power, right? A real budget option then would be just to build cabs and throw some car-drivers in a lot of cabs perhaps a bad idea but they are almost free

Thanks for the site, i'll check it up further, 2x12" might be the thing. Later on i would like to buy the same driver, or the neo-version, of the lavoce waf154.00 that i bought new for 250EUR, the week after, it costed 370EUR which makes me cheap since i bought it for a price i felt was ok and I still havent figured out the setup. 2xtitan48 with nice drivers.. Or 4 with a more budget option or six cabs. Or eight.. Haha

Thanks! Over here the drivers has raised more than the ply though but I hear you, i will consider that then. And try to find a Europe driver like the 3015 with a vd in between those other two.

For those of us outside the USA you can spend forever looking for budget options, searching specs, comparing, wondering etc.
I know, Australia has the same problem.

There is an old saying in the forum: "Buy once, cry once".

Have you gone through the plans and researched all the drivers listed in the plans and their availability and cost in Europe?
Most people would opt for the 3015LF, but the Ciare 12.00 is listed in the plans, and dual loading with 12's will beat the output of a single 15. Or single loading with 2 cabs.

Anyway, I did a quick search for the Ciare 12 in Europe.
I found it here:
http://www.paluidsprekers.nl/12.htm

On the same page is a Sica 12 @ 199Eu. Ever so barely out of spec for Qts @ O.24, Xmax is Ok as is Fs.

Mind you, the Ciare is only 70Eu more...

[Grant Bunter]

Hi Grant!
the low sensitivity of the ciare does mean it requires some power, right?

No. Drivers in horns respond differently to the same driver in a direct radiator.
Consequently, there is always a power limit, or voltage displacement limit imposed on drivers in horns or they quietly stop working.

The criteria to determine the voltage displacement limit are in an order of importance.
Xmax and impedance are up the top of that list. I'm not even sure sensitivity makes the list, because it's measured in an infinite baffle, not a horn.

Surprisingly, even though the Ciare SW12.0 is listed as a suitable driver in my older plans, it doesn't have a voltage displacement listed in the plans.
I'm assuming it's 50V like the 3012lf.

Just remember this: when a driver falls within the specs, it's the design that dictates response, not the driver...

[Seth]

...I still havent figured out the setup. 2xtitan48 with nice drivers.. Or 4 with a more budget option...

Up's and downs to each strategy. If transport and storage isn't an issue, I personally like the idea of more cabs with budget drivers. 4 cabs allows a lower high pass, takes advantage of the natural increase in sensitivity that comes with increased combined cab width, and you can always upgrade drivers in the future if the need arises. Build full width cabs if you can store and transport cabs of that size.
But, if transport and storage is a limiting factor, fewer cabs with premium drivers would obviously be the way to go.

It's really difficult to go wrong with either direction.

[Rich4349]

Can't 2 double loaded, double wide cabs (4 drivers total), V-plated, also be run to the lower Hz?

[Camillo]

I see said the blind! Now i am checking all drivers i have laying around, most for fun. And some car-subs seem to have okay parameters? Which means i could start build some 12" and use the woofers laying around until i know what drivers to use. Perhaps build a 2x12 with changable baffle for a single 15" this is way too much fun!

Hi Grant!
the low sensitivity of the ciare does mean it requires some power, right?

No. Drivers in horns respond differently to the same driver in a direct radiator.
Consequently, there is always a power limit, or voltage displacement limit imposed on drivers in horns or they quietly stop working.

The criteria to determine the voltage displacement limit are in an order of importance.
Xmax and impedance are up the top of that list. I'm not even sure sensitivity makes the list, because it's measured in an infinite baffle, not a horn.

Surprisingly, even though the Ciare SW12.0 is listed as a suitable driver in my older plans, it doesn't have a voltage displacement listed in the plans.
I'm assuming it's 50V like the 3012lf.

Just remember this: when a driver falls within the specs, it's the design that dictates response, not the driver...

[Seth]

The only reasons I'd ever build a double loaded cab is if it was for an instalation and/or I needed to wire the drivers in series. But, series wiring can be achieved externally too. If I already had a 15 loaded cab, I would be more inclined to consider more single loaded cabs for 15's and just make an adapter ring to use 12" drivers. However, this plan limits max cab width to 24".

You may consider making an adapter ring to try out your questionable 12's in the T48 you already have. I forget, how wide did you build you current T48?

[Camillo]

Ah i see!
I've built a 26" loaded with one 15". I couldnt help myself from buying the 18sound driver second hand to have a carrot to start building a second one, thats when i found out that i had some 12" laying around that could fit but i guess that i'll make the cab 26" aswell to load with the same lavoce i already have in the future, or simply just keep building boxes in pairs with the same drivers.

I also found this as a budget one for approx 150-200 euro depending on site: https://www.ltt-versand.de/en/sound/spe ... um-15-800w

It doesnt say fs but fO. Is the o for open baffle?

The only reasons I'd ever build a double loaded cab is if it was for an instalation and/or I needed to wire the drivers in series. But, series wiring can be achieved externally too. If I already had a 15 loaded cab, I would be more inclined to consider more single loaded cabs for 15's and just make an adapter ring to use 12" drivers. However, this plan limits max cab width to 24".

You may consider making an adapter ring to try out your questionable 12's in the T48 you already have. I forget, how wide did you build you current T48?

[Grant Bunter]

Ah i see!
I've built a 26" loaded with one 15". I couldnt help myself from buying the 18sound driver second hand to have a carrot to start building a second one, thats when i found out that i had some 12" laying around that could fit but i guess that i'll make the cab 26" aswell to load with the same lavoce i already have in the future, or simply just keep building boxes in pairs with the same drivers.

There's a problem with an ad hoc approach to cab building, and it's this:

You need to consider other unintended consequences.
If you series wire 2 x 12" 8 ohm drivers, the impedance will be 16ohms and the voltage that can be delivered will be doubled ie 50V goes to 100V. That's a fairly serious amplifier requirement.
If you don't power that cab to 100V, then you don't get the max output.
You also need to calculate load on a given amp channel.
2 cabs with 8 ohm 15" drivers in parallel is 4ohms
2 cabs series wired 2 x 8ohm 12" drivers in parallel is 8 ohms.

I would get another 15" 8 ohm driver for the second cab. From that point on, you need to consider impedance manipulation carefully. That decision suddenly becomes less of an issue of driver cost, because anything you save in drivers will be chewed up by the requirement for a more powerful amp.

As far as the PD driver, both Qts and Fs are arguably right on the edge of acceptable. Provided you can trust a spec sheet that doesn't even name the driver it's for...

[Camillo]

Agree. I found some of the specs quite close the 3015lf. (not nearly as strong ofc) It would be fun too see if anyone tried it. If its okay it could be a nice budget option. Prices seems to vary on them a lot aswell and probably something one could be able to get a hold off cheap. And maybe they sound like that - cheap.

As far as the PD driver, both Qts and Fs are arguably right on the edge of acceptable. Provided you can trust a spec sheet that doesn't even name the driver it's for...