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Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:36 pm
by Mr Freeze
Hello, after successfully completing a Jack 10 Lite last year for my grab n go bass rig (love it for both rehearsal and gigs!) I'm embarking on a Titan 39 24" wide build.
My 4pc rock band does not run a subwoofer with our unpowered Mackie 12ch mixer. We play clubs and occasional outdoor gigs.
I picked up the BB yesterday and the Lab 12C was delivered today.
I intend to include a plate amplifier, several questions:
1). Dayton Audio PPA800DSP 2-Way Plate Amplifier 800W 2-Channel seems to have better spec for a sub than the dedicated Dayton Audio SPA500DSP 500W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier. Even tho the PPA800DSP has 2 channels, (and I won't need the HF channel) its cheaper and more powerful. Am I missing something ?
2). Can I just mount the plate amplifier to the back panel ?
3. Can I recess mount the plate amplifier, so the controls don't protrude beyond the face ? (to minimize amp damage during transport)
4. (sorry for such a noob question here, but .. ) Will hookup from the mixer be 1) main XLR output (R or L) to powered Sub then 2) XLR output from Sub plate amp to powered Main ?
Thanks, Mr Freeze
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:37 pm
by ACUA
I doubt anyone will recommend mounting a plate amp to the subwoofer horn. If it changes the dimensions of the horn in any way it will be undesirable. If you plan to mount a plate amp to the tops I say go for it, if not I would personally recommend rack mount amplification and get a portable rack for all of it.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:28 pm
by Bruce Weldy
Mr Freeze wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:36 pm
Hello, after successfully completing a Jack 10 Lite last year for my grab n go bass rig (love it for both rehearsal and gigs!) I'm embarking on a Titan 39 24" wide build.
My 4pc rock band does not run a subwoofer with our unpowered Mackie 12ch mixer. We play clubs and occasional outdoor gigs.
I picked up the BB yesterday and the Lab 12C was delivered today.
Why did you go with the 4 ohm version? The suggested driver is the Lab12
I intend to include a plate amplifier, several questions:
1). Dayton Audio PPA800DSP 2-Way Plate Amplifier 800W 2-Channel seems to have better spec for a sub than the dedicated Dayton Audio SPA500DSP 500W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier. Even tho the PPA800DSP has 2 channels, (and I won't need the HF channel) its cheaper and more powerful. Am I missing something ?
The 800DSP is only 400 watts at 4 ohms for the low-end amp.....I imagine you'll be clipping it before you get to the Lab's voltage limit
2). Can I just mount the plate amplifier to the back panel ?
3. Can I recess mount the plate amplifier, so the controls don't protrude beyond the face ? (to minimize amp damage during transport)
There's a rim around the plate amp that protects the knobs. Recessing it will still leave that rim exposed the back won't be flat unless you make a major change to the cab to inset it way in there.
4. (sorry for such a noob question here, but .. ) Will hookup from the mixer be 1) main XLR output (R or L) to powered Sub then 2) XLR output from Sub plate amp to powered Main ?
The 800DSP doesn't pass thru stereo. The 500 does, but I can't find the real output numbers on it. If it's truly 500 watts at 4ohms, then it would be the better choice if you plan to power the tops....but, it all depends on what kind of tops you are using as to whether you can put a plate amp in them.
Thanks, Mr Freeze
Bottom line - it's way easier to just use a driverack and a small amp rack to do what you want to do. ..... that is, unless you already have powered tops.
Give us a little more info on what you have gear-wise and what exactly you want to do with it.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:47 am
by Mr Freeze
OK, thanks for the responses. I was hoping to mount an onboard amp to minimize transport & setup complications.
You confirmed that modifying the horn is bad .. so scratch that idea.
We run powered tops.
So, in addition to the Titan 39 I will need a rack mount power amp. And a way to split signal to the Titan 39 amp and powered tops ?
Opinions on suitable / affordable power amp ? I might use it 1-2x a month in small clubs / outdoor gigs.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:52 am
by ACUA
Does your mixer have an aux send that you do not use? You could put the sub on a send channel. You could get a smaller amplifier and run it in bridge mode to get sufficient power for the sub. Many amps have some dsp like low pass and limiting. Everyone will highly recommend you employ a limiting function to the sub to protect it, reason being that in a horn you can fail the driver before getting any audible or smellable indicators of over driving the sub.
If you think for a second that you will be steadily growing your acoustic arsenal you should start saving up for a DSP unit, most people I know around here run a DBX drive rack. This component is in my opinion as important as any other part of the rig. Can be a bit of a learning curve but required really as you improve your gigging game.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:45 am
by Bruce Weldy
ACUA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:52 am
Many amps have some dsp like low pass and limiting.
Unfortunately, only fairly expensive amps have the kind of limiting you need for the T39. The limiting listed in most every under-$1000 amp is going to be limiting that protects the amp - NOT the speakers. Regardless of what the ad literature says.
Your board I assume is analog based on the way you described it. Thus, it has no real EQ available other maybe a 7 band, that's not adequate to try and run aux-fed subs out of the mixer. Plus, it's not a good way to run your rig if you are mixing off the stage.
A dbx Driverack will give you a proper crossover, along with EQ and the correct kind of limiting to protect your sub. You don't need the latest and greatest. A used Driverack PA, PA+, or PX will do everything you need and can be found all over for $150-250. And the best thing is that your rig will sound better than it ever has. Properly crossing over and EQing a PA makes a world of difference in how your band sounds.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:18 pm
by J_Dunavin
I 2nd the driverack!
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:50 pm
by jimbo7
J_Dunavin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:18 pm
I 2nd the driverack!
3rd
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:55 pm
by Bryan Cox
4th. The PA2 made it so I could get rid of my outboard crossover, compressors, EQs, etc.. And the digital mixer allowed me to get rid of the Peavey Deltafex. My rack now consists of a mixer, Furman power conditioner, PA2, and two amps. So much lighter and easier. And bonus...brick wall limiter for the subs.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:09 pm
by Mr Freeze
We run a Mackie ProFX12v3 mixer. Output to 2 powered tops, 2 powered monitors. No subwoofer, hence my build.
So the signal chain from the Mackie will be ?
L/R main mixer output to DriverackPA
L/R high (or mid ?) DriverackPA output to L/R powered tops
L or R low DriverackPA output to Subwoofer power amp
Subwoofer power amp to Titan 39
Yes ?
I just don't do anything with the PA myself, so completely learning here. Thanks.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:38 pm
by J_Dunavin
Correct.
In the driverack you will want to set a high pass crossover for your powered tops and of course low pass for the subs.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:20 pm
by Bruce Weldy
Mr Freeze wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:09 pm
We run a Mackie ProFX12v3 mixer. Output to 2 powered tops, 2 powered monitors. No subwoofer, hence my build.
So the signal chain from the Mackie will be ?
L/R main mixer output to DriverackPA
L/R high (or mid ?) DriverackPA output to L/R powered tops
L or R low DriverackPA output to Subwoofer power amp
Subwoofer power amp to Titan 39
Yes ?
I just don't do anything with the PA myself, so completely learning here. Thanks.
That's the correct signal chain, but you'll want to set the Driverack as a Mono Sub along with your stereo Mains. You can just just use the High and Low on the PA or PA+, the PX is just two way, so there's only high and low. It works just as well and may be found a little cheaper.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:46 am
by Bryan Cox
Mr Freeze wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:09 pm
L/R high (or mid ?) DriverackPA output to L/R powered tops
You'd really only need to use the mid output if you were bi-amping your tops. Like Bruce said, use Hi and Low outputs.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:50 pm
by Mr Freeze
Thanks Bruce and Bryan. I'll look for a used Driverack PA. Several on Reverb now for $200.
Do you have any suggestions for a reasonably priced amp for my small combo application ? Small rooms and < 20 gigs per year.
Re: Titan 39 Wide build
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:58 pm
by Bruce Weldy
Mr Freeze wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:50 pm
Thanks Bruce and Bryan. I'll look for a used Driverack PA. Several on Reverb now for $200.
Do you have any suggestions for a reasonably priced amp for my small combo application ? Small rooms and < 20 gigs per year.
Lots of different ways to go. For this application, I'd suggest a Crown XLS1002. Run it in bridge mode to get the voltage needed, but definitely will have to be limited.
You can go with a bigger, more expensive amp that doesn't need to be bridged, but you'll just be wasting a channel (or you have an extra one, depending on how you look at it).
Since you already have Powered tops and Powered monitors, you don't really need extra amp channels - that's why I suggested the one above. It weighs in under 9 pounds and you could put it and a driverack in a 4U rack with one space to spare. An if you really want to do it right, add a rack panel with your inputs and outputs on the back of the rack so you never have to reach inside of the rack (keeps everything safe from getting inadvertently screwed up).