BillFitzmaurice.info

Hi, my husband and I are working on developing a business which involves dance music and music to lounge and relax to. We plan to reach out to our friends for support and good times. We have invested a lot in the music already and Now, our next step is to equip ourselves with the best audio equipment.

After doing a thorough search online and seeing what's out there among company manufactured subwoofers, Richard has found that Mr. Fitzmaurice's Tuba 60's with the Eminence Lab 15 have extend further down in pitch than any other he's seen online. They are the more cost effective and it will be personally more rewarding to build them than to have them handed over to us by a retailer.

Our objective to build 3 Tuba 60's, one for indoors, two for outdoors which will be playing at the same stage at the same time and to build four DR 250's two for indoors, two for outdoors, with Deltalite-II-2510 woofers and 20 Goldwood-GT-1010 piezos in each box.

We would like to know what are the best amps for the indoor and outdoor combos. Maybe two amps are needed for each? Richard is confused because he doesn't know if 6 (Lab 15) and 8 ohm (Deltalite-II-2510 and Goldwood-GT-1010) speakers/tweeters can be connected most ideally on one amp.

All we know, and this is old news to him, and he doesn't know if this current, is that Crown manufactures the best amps. Is this still true? Saving so much because of the speaker components, we won't mind to splurge for the best! We'll probably have the same balance, or still have less cost, then if we were to by manufactured audio equipment.

We would like to buy a Canadian store, so here are our options. There are two stores to consider:
https://www.long-mcquade.com/department ... sovers.htm
https://www.avshop.ca/sound-amp-pa-audio/amps (this one seems "better/more options" says Richard.)

Is there anything else we'll need from these stores for audio equipment?

Could some of you offer us some good and consistent advice? We would only like to invest in this pro audio equipment after we have found consensus on this board, so feel free to discuss (if needed)! Thanks in advance!

Nancy & Richard Bornyi

Hi Nancy (and Richard),
Welcome to the forum

"Dance music" is too generic, one of Bill's quotes is

Without a doubt the cab most often built that probably shouldn't be is the Tuba 60. It's only a good choice if you need a lot of output below 32 Hz, and the vast majority of users don't.

This is because, more often than one might expect, there isn't the low content in many genres of music that actually require the lows the T60 can achieve.
The T60 is also quite large, think refrigerator large.

When you say 'dance music", exactly what do you mean?
Also, do you happen to know what low content (ie a value in Hz) you require to be reproduced by subs?

It's important to help you sort out what you really need when it comes to building.

Something that does need to be factored into budget is DSP or speaker management. This investment is mandatory, to protect your speakers.
It can be purchased as rack units like the DBX driverack series, or some amplifiers have it as well...

Nancy B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:25 pm Hi, my husband and I are working on developing a business which involves dance music and music to lounge and relax to. We plan to reach out to our friends for support and good times. We have invested a lot in the music already and Now, our next step is to equip ourselves with the best audio equipment.

What kind of dance music, top40 or EDM? How many people do you expect to provide for and how loud do you intend to go? Dance club middle of dance floor loud or something a little tamer?

Nancy B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:25 pm After doing a thorough search online and seeing what's out there among company manufactured subwoofers, Richard has found that Mr. Fitzmaurice's Tuba 60's with the Eminence Lab 15 have extend further down in pitch than any other he's seen online. They are the more cost effective and it will be personally more rewarding to build them than to have them handed over to us by a retailer.

Refer to the above question. Do you really need 25hz output that the T60 can output? Horns get exponentially bigger the lower you want to go. A 27" wide T60 with a lab15 is the size of a small fridge. Do you have the packspace and more importantly the muscle to move them around? My 29" dual lab12 T60's takes 3 strong people to lift them on a truck. Did I say they were big?

I can count on one hand how many times I have heard EDM DJ's tracks drop down to 25hz (and needed that for the (track). That is over 180 EDM shows with about 4 DJ's per show. Even on those handfull of tracks you really don't hear 25hz, it just vibrates the building and gives you an eerie sense. Of the over 300 top40 dance music nights they have done, not once has 25hz been necessary. I left mine at the venue they were in when I left and am now going to build a pack of T45's to go mobile with. T45's go down to 30hz and are much easier to move around and take up way less pack space. 30hz is more than low enough for even 99% of EDM. I would strongly consider your needs/ability to move/store/chiropractor costs, etc before you decide on lab15 T60's. For a permanent install or a steady gig where you can store them between shows then by all means use them, but to move around regularly, I'd reconsider.

Nancy B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:25 pmOur objective to build 3 Tuba 60's, one for indoors, two for outdoors which will be playing at the same stage at the same time and to build four DR 250's two for indoors, two for outdoors, with Deltalite-II-2510 woofers and 20 Goldwood-GT-1010 piezos in each box.

DR250's go really loud and are the cleanest sounding box I have ever heard. To match up with the tops for most styles of music a 1:1 top to sub ratio is advised indoors, 1:2 ratio outdoors. Even with the higher output lab15 T60, the DR's would still outrun your proposed ratios, 2 of my DR250's can outrun 2 double 18's with a 3000w amp on them. For EDM I would double the sub to top ratio, 4 tuba subs for 2 tops indoors, 8 subs for 2 tops outdoors. Of course if your volume levels are modest you might be okay with your proposal.

Nancy B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:25 pmWe would like to know what are the best amps for the indoor and outdoor combos. Maybe two amps are needed for each? Richard is confused because he doesn't know if 6 (Lab 15) and 8 ohm (Deltalite-II-2510 and Goldwood-GT-1010) speakers/tweeters can be connected most ideally on one amp.

If you run mono you can get away with only 1 amp. Subs on one channel, tops on the other. As long as you don't go below the amps minimum rated impedance you are okay. The channels are independent so different ohm loads on each channel is okay as long as each channel doesn't go below minimum. 2 8ohm cabs on one channel is now 4ohms, 4 8ohm cabs on one channel is now 2ohms. Not all amps can handle 2ohm loads and is not ideal for the ones that can.

How mission critical is your show? Running 1 amp doesn't give you any insurance if you lose a channel or the whole amp. With 2 amps you can run stereo on the tops, split the loads on the subs and if anything goes wrong you can quickly patch everything into the working channels and continue with the show. If you are doing this for fun, start with 1 amp and add a spare later. If you are getting paid by clients and do this often, you will run into this problem, usually it is not even the amp but a bad cable somewhere. Where? you don't have time to find out, you just patch into the working channels and being able to quickly recover saves the day.

Nancy B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:25 pmAll we know, and this is old news to him, and he doesn't know if this current, is that Crown manufactures the best amps. Is this still true? Saving so much because of the speaker components, we won't mind to splurge for the best! We'll probably have the same balance, or still have less cost, then if we were to by manufactured audio equipment.

That used to be the case back in the day that with crown you got good sound quality and reliability. Everybody else has now caught up (or surpassed) to the point where amps are now commodity items. Well all the name brand ones anyways. The biggest thing nowadays that separates them is the DSP feature set, ability to handle low (2ohm) loads or not and ability to handle sketchy power or not. Reliability is about the same on all of them, you can get a dud from any manufacturer about equally, that's what warranty is for and they all sound the same.

Look into some other manufactures as well. Crown, Crest prolite, QSC, Peavy IPR2, Behringer. You can even make your cabs self powered viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25068

Nancy B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:25 pmWe would like to buy a Canadian store, so here are our options. There are two stores to consider:
https://www.long-mcquade.com/department ... sovers.htm
https://www.avshop.ca/sound-amp-pa-audio/amps (this one seems "better/more options" says Richard.)

As a fellow Canadian I appreciate the loyalty to Canadian stores but that is the expensive way to buy some (not all) equipment. Amps are much cheaper ordering from US sites like BHphoto, sweetwater, musicians friend, ebay, etc.

Nancy B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:25 pmIs there anything else we'll need from these stores for audio equipment?

You will need a decent DSP to run these speakers. One that has a good limiter, xover, and decent EQ. The behringer 2496, dbx driverack series, or ashley protea are the standard outboard goto ones. Nowadays many amps have these features built in and that can save some money and weight and space in your rack. Some have more features than others. For example, the behringer amps have the most comprehensive DSP's built in but the amps can only handle 4ohm loads minimum and really don't like being run off a generator if that comes into play. The crest and peavy amps can handle 2ohm loads no problem but have very limited onboard EQ.

Choosing whether to go with amps with DSP or to use an outboard DSP or which amp or model to buy, or to make your boxes self powered with the amp in the link I shared above is worthy of its own thread depending on your needs, expansion plans if any, budget, etc.

Other audio equipment you will need are speaker stands, xlr cables, speaker cables, rack mounted power bar, a rackcase for amps/dsp/power distribution, microphone for announcements (with on/off switch)

Hi Grant!

Something that does need to be factored into budget is DSP or speaker management. This investment is mandatory, to protect your speakers.
It can be purchased as rack units like the DBX driverack series, or some amplifiers have it as well...

Thanks for the tips!

When you say 'dance music", exactly what do you mean?

We were as accurate as we could be.

It had to be a cover all term because my Richard covered mostly all bases!

Something serendipitous happened. This properly answers your question.

A former student of mine is coming over to dinner tomorrow. I taught him in his first year elementary. He's now studying a PhD in composition at a local university and has won awards for composition. Time flies!

We plan doing much in our lives, and one of Richard's objective is to help influence new composers by exposing them to music that's on the fringe, or, not typically heard at university circles by the elite musicians. His father (RIP) was a classically trained musician and we invested a lot because of the impression his father had on his life.

Tonight he just built a list for Gavin of all the genres/styles of music he's collected; so I was amazed at how you asked! ... this is a long list ... and a complete answer!

We would like to eventually host three day/two night events indoors & outdoors among our trusted friends, and their-their's, etc. We think that in our community of friends we will have no more than 250 people.

Our indoor location will be for lounging, conversation, personal and social reflection & meditation, and resting (sleeping) ... outdoors will be for dancing into the wee hours of the morning or past dawn.

To answer your question without the list, we pretty sure the deepest Hz (20 Hz) is the optimum. Don't you think?

Nancy & Richard

Jazz
Acid Jazz
Downtempo: Nu Jazz
Hi-Tech Jazz [techno]
Jazz-House [house]
Jazz Rap

Funk / Disco / R&B
P Funk
Synth Funk
Boogie

Funktronica

Go Go

Hip-Hop
Electro Hip Hop
1979-1995 (Golden Era, East Coast)
Instrumental Hip Hop
Turntablism
Miami Bass / Car Bass
Jazz Rap / Native Tongue
Chopped & Screwed
Snap
Bounce
Jerk Rap
Abstract / Experimental Hip Hop
Glitch Hop
Industrial Hip Hop
Political Hip Hop
Hip Hop (konsciousness)
Chicago Bop
Lo-Fi Hip Hop

Flex Dance Music

New Wave/Post-Punk
Dance-Punk (Revival)
New Rave

Synthpop
Dreamsynth
Early Synthwave
Outrun
Cyberpunk
Horror Movie Scores
Horror Synth Revial
Dark Synth
Retrowave
Vocal Synthwave
Spacewave
Sweatwave
Shredwave
Chipwave
Retro EDM
Freshwave
Yuppiewave
Fantasywave

Alternative Rock/Indie Rock
Noise Pop
Dream Pop
Grebo
Alternative Dance
Madchester/Baggy
Shoegaze
Indietronica

Electronic
IDM
Downtempo: IDM

House
Acid House + UK House
Progressive House
Progressive Garage/Tribal House
Footwork
Baltimore Club
French House
Minimal (Microhouse++)
Electro Swing
French Electro
Outsider House (aka Lo-Fi House)

Techno
Electro

Detroit Techno:
(1st Wave)
Detroit House

"Brooklyn Rave Scene"

(2nd Wave)
Techno - "The Canadian Connection"
UK Techno
Minimal Techno
Dub Techno
Deep Techno

Acid Techno

UK Techno:
Bleep Techno
"Psychedelic UK Techno"
Wonky Techno
Hard London Acid Techno

Trance
Classic Trance:
Hypno House
Trance
German
Hard Trance
Acid Trance
Hard Acid

Eurotrance:
Progressive Trance
Uplifiting Trance
Dutch

Downtempo Trance:
Ibiza Trance
Dream Trance

Goa Trance / Psytrance:
Goa Trance

Progressive
Full-On
Darkpsy
Twilight
Morning
Forest
Techno
Zenonesque
Hi-Tech
Deep Trance
Techtrance
Suomisaundi/Suomi
Minimal
Psybreaks
Uplifting
Classic Psy
Organic
IDM:Psytrance
Drum n Bass
Psycore
Bass Music
Ambient/Downtempo Goa Trance / Psytrance:
Downtempo
Psy Dub
Ambient Psy
Swamp
Experimental Psy:
Experimental
Glitch

Drum & Bass
Breakbeat Hardcore
Darkcore / Jungle Techno
Jungle / Ragga Jungle
Jungle / Drum n Bass
Intelligent Jungle / Atmospheric Drum and Bass
Jazzstep
Liquid Funk
Hardstep
Drum & Bass
Techstep
Darkstep
Neurofunk
Trancestep
Minimal Drum & Bass
Drumstep

Downtempo Breaks
Ambient Breaks
Trip Hop

Breakbeat
"San Francisco Rave Scene"
Acid Breaks
Big Beat
Chermical Breaks

Progressive Breaks

Hardcore
Belgian Techno

Tartan [Bouncy] Techno/Funcore

Dutch Happy Gabber

Breakbeat Happy Hardcore [/4-beat]
Happy Hardcore
UK Hardcore
Trancecore [Hardcore EDM/Trance]
Freeform Hardcore

Kniteforce/KFA/KFD (KF01-present)

Digital Hardcore
Drill n Bass
Breakcore
Raggacore

Splittercore
Extratone

Flashcore

Nintendocore

Trancecore [Melodic Metal/EDM]

UK Garage / Dubstep
Future Garage

Purple Sound
Wonky
Chillstep
UK Bass

Future Bass

Ambient
Ambientnoisegaze
Arctic Ambient

Ambient House
Ambient Techno
Ambient Trance

+ Drone

Chill Out
Chill Out
Modern Lounge
Dub / World

Noise / Experimental
Glitch
Microsound
Lowercase
Tape Music
Plunderphonics

New Millennium Music
Plunderphonics
Hypnagogic Pop
Hauntology
Chillwave
Vaporwave
Mallsoft
Post-Internet
Future Funk
Muzakcore
Vapornoise
Vaportrap
Signalwave
Parody/Satirical
Hardvapor
Slushwave
Fringewave
Bubblegum Bass
Kawaii Bass
Weird Bass

+ Folktronica

(1974-2018)

That's an impressive list

Read Corona Operator's post, it's very handy!
OK, let's see if you actually need 20-25Hz.
If you have audacity (if not, download it for free) and work out how to use it to evaluate the lowest notes in the most bass heavy songs in your list.
If you find 1 or 2 songs only that require the ability to reproduce 20-25Hz after that exercise, then you don't need T60's...

Nancy B wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:50 am
To answer your question without the list, we pretty sure the deepest Hz (20 Hz) is the optimum. Don't you think?

Nancy, not even the biggest EDM production companies out there do 20 hz, 25 hz is as low as even the daring-est ones go, 30 hz is the norm. Outside of a living room or other small space it just isn't practical to attempt 20 hz in a performance space. Not without a train or cement truck driving by on cue anyways. It just takes too much equipment to reproduce it. You won't hear it anyways, indoors you will hear the building vibrate but those vibrations will be things like wall and ceiling panels rattling above 20 hz, air ducts shaking, floor boards vibrating, etc , outdoors you will hear nothing. It is possible in home theater due to a phenomena called cabin gain but that only works in smaller rooms, again what you are hearing is the room shaking, not 20 hz. Room shaking is great for action movies, not so much for music.

30 hz will cover 99.9% of the tracks you have without missing out on the experience of the track. You will have to decide if the extra size and weight of the T60's is worth it for the 5 tracks (tracks, not genres) that benefit from it. IME, 25 hz only becomes noticeable/exciting/wow factor on a drop that is a clean sine sweep down to 25 hz. If there is other bass lines/content at a higher frequency overlapping that drop (say 50 hz), you just don't notice it even if the content is there. Our ears are much more sensitive at higher frequencies and the perceived louder 50 hz line just drowns out the 25 hz. Even the tracks that do that drop are only 5 seconds of fun until the drop is over.

That is quite the selection of music, I had to youtube a few genres. Nintendocore was one of them. I didn't know that even existed. I do sound for a hiphop group that has a video game themed song called "Level Grindin' " that has a nintendo-ish back beat. A song sample can be listened to on amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Level-Grindin-fe ... B07FZP7V1Z. I will definitely let them know about this genre next show.

Hi Corona!

Refer to the above question. Do you really need 25hz output that the T60 can output? Horns get exponentially bigger the lower you want to go. A 27" wide T60 with a lab15 is the size of a small fridge. Do you have the packspace and more importantly the muscle to move them around? My 29" dual lab12 T60's takes 3 strong people to lift them on a truck. Did I say they were big?

That question confuses us. If a Lab 15 only goes down to 25 Hz, we're wondering if it's worth the hassle...

But, the specifications show that a Lab 15 has good db at 20 Hz, the online peddlers say that it has a usable frequency range of 20 Hz - 0.1 kHz. Since the Lab 15 transmits sound 6 Hz deeper than the CVE-18s, which seems to be deepest commercial sub-woofer we intend to build the Lab 15 Tuba 60's for that extra growl!

The mixer that we are using also goes down to 20 Hz for the digital controller we are using, so we thought this was the ideal fit! The Lab 12's have a usable frequency range of 25 Hz - 0.1 kHz though.

The house that we are making plans on manufacturing these speakers is away from anyone else's residence by quite a distance. It's a large house that is owned by farmers who are our friends. Among our friends, we're sure that at least one will have the knowledge to handle a jig saw and circular saw, etc. The odds are pretty great. There are many talented people and larger families surrounding us as well.

When Richard and I were married we hosted a DJ party in one room and a pizza party with classical music in another. Richard DJ'd and rented two Yorkville 18'' subwoofers and two Yorkville 12'' tops. They were tall and heavy, yes, and we managed, so we know weight and size of large speaker equipment.

We are fairly certain that our friends who own the farm would be happy to host our speakers for their parties. They like hosting events as their way of connecting with others. They have on a semi-frequent basis and now even more with us at their farm. Since it will be stored at their large house the eight Tuba's wouldn't have to travel too far, just outside. We might now have to plan to build a shed for ten tubas and four DR 250's (!) ? but it's trustingly doable.

How mission critical is your show?

Although the premise of this mission is to have a good and fun time and among friends, we are designing these events for highest caliber of excellence. So, yes, please, we would like to have stereo sound.
...
Buy wait! As I am processing through your message, I see this self powered cab link and it's NEW! And what an excellent price! We're glad to see this Corna! Thanks for the link! And I am glad that Mr. Fitzmaurice posted this first, we thought we needed amps but it turns out, no!

You's just saved us a bundle! Among the things which we struggle with the most are the wires, so making these TEN Tuba's and Four DR 250 powered ... this will save us a lot of hassle and cash (for our

impromptu parties;

of high caliber to perfect quality sound.

That's an impressive list

Thanks Grant! As I mentioned, Richard is as an avid collector. He has 100,215 itunes currently in his itunes collection. He still has to add more of what he has accumulated from other download sites. Then he's adding the files systematically into his Serato DJ Pro program!

He wants to hand this gift to our future children and to talented composers (as said) as time continues. We don't have time to analyze tunes on a case by case basis.

Corona

I am glad you said this:

Nancy, not even the biggest EDM production companies out there do 20 hz, 25 hz is as low as even the daring-est ones go, 30 hz is the norm. Outside of a living room or other small space it just isn't practical to attempt 20 hz in a performance space. Not without a train or cement truck driving by on cue anyways. It just takes too much equipment to reproduce it. You won't hear it anyways, indoors you will hear the building vibrate but those vibrations will be things like wall and ceiling panels rattling above 20 hz, air ducts shaking, floor boards vibrating, etc , outdoors you will hear nothing. It is possible in home theater due to a phenomena called cabin gain but that only works in smaller rooms, again what you are hearing is the room shaking, not 20 hz. Room shaking is great for action movies, not so much for music.W

30 hz will cover 99.9% of the tracks you have without missing out on the experience of the track. You will have to decide if the extra size and weight of the T60's is worth it for the 5 tracks (tracks, not genres) that benefit from it. IME, 25 hz only becomes noticeable/exciting/wow factor on a drop that is a clean sine sweep down to 25 hz. If there is other bass lines/content at a higher frequency overlapping that drop (say 50 hz), you just don't notice it even if the content is there. Our ears are much more sensitive at higher frequencies and the perceived louder 50 hz line just drowns out the 25 hz. Even the tracks that do that drop are only 5 seconds of fun until the drop is over.

I really needed to hear that!

What would be the right solution, then? Should we build our own? (Sorry Mr. Fitzmaurice, this response begs me to question our future course, of course.)

We will build the DR 250. We trust they are are deemed the best. Build speakers sounds fun and exciting (and is new experience to us, we might build more in the future) but what subs should we build?

The Cerwin Vega CVE-18s seem more alluring now ... and so, we feeling uncertain.

If you want to know more about these genres/styles, here's the links to know more about them. I hope you'll enjoy journeying through these many, many sounds:

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/TheScien ... e-box-set/
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/floflo79 ... ng-genres/
https://musicmap.info/
http://www.ektoplazm.com/
http://ambientmusicguide.com/
http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/
https://www.discogs.com/search/
https://reference.discogslabs.com/wiki
https://www.allmusic.com/
https://www.last.fm/music
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music_styles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... sic_genres [just added]

Anyways, signing out for now. I'm really needing to sleep. Peace.

Well, if you don't have to lug them around much then build the T60's ! Some of us have to lug this stuff around from gig to gig and load it in and out on a truck 3 times a week so we were sharing some advice our backs were giving us .

Some other tidbits, those driver specifications are measured infinite baffle, meaning they cut a hole in a wall, mount the driver and measure it. Once you put that driver in a horn, everything changes. T60's go to 25hz , T45's go to 30 hz in groups of 4 or more.

For your indoor chill space something like the table tuba might be loud enough and take up less space and be easier to move around, ditto for the tops. The sla's or tlah's might be a better fit for in a house.

Powered boxes won't be less expensive than outboard amps, they are convenient for some applications but for yours, running power and signal to all the boxes would be a tangled mess. An amp rack would be the way to go.

As far as sound quality, these boxes, once you master tuning them are about as clean a sound as you can get. In fact, you probably won't hear the best of them off of iTunes. You really need uncompressed files to hear all the detail these things can do.

Nancy B wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:30 am
What would be the right solution, then? Should we build our own?

Absolutely! the one thing that specs don't convey is sound quality and nothing, absolutely nothing sounds as good as a folded horn. Once you hear one you will never want to listen to a ported cabinet ever again.

Thanks, Corona. I just had to get one word in .. I like how you said:

As far as sound quality, these boxes, once you master tuning them are about as clean a sound as you can get. In fact, you probably won't hear the best of them off of iTunes. You really need uncompressed files to hear all the detail these things can do.

Once we master tuning we'll have "golden ears," and then you won't hear the best of iTunes ... or is this really the case? Richard found a study last year and asked about live sound in the comments below (as username: poppyseed, found here:) https://cdvsmp3.wordpress.com/cd-vs-itu ... t-results/ this blog might just be a hoax or you really do have "golden" ears.

For outdoor events does the rule still apply for Tuba 45's (not 60's haha) that a 3:1-sub to top? If so, the next question:

We really don't know how to read the specs on amps! This whole things is new to us. It's best for someone else to decide and it seem you are all more capable of doing so ... or, if there's some information on this forum so we can figure it out on our own. If no one wants to tell us point blank because no one wants to do products placement/endorsement, we guess we can respect that as well.

Final option: pm us if you'd like to share amp of choice without broadcasting out into the internet with your name on it.

Nancy,
It's imperative that you build what you need, not what you think you might need lol.
There's a bunch of decisions to be made there alone, and you need to be adequately informed to make those decisions.
That's why both CO and I are trying to inform you, you probably don't need T60's, though they may end up being the cabs you build.

If, after some discussion, you decide you don't need T60's, but another design, the premium option driver for that cab may have different amplifier requirements.
See where we're going now?

Consildating to date so far:
Outdoors subs to tops ratio is 2:1, not 3:1

The Cerwin Vega CVE-18s seem more alluring now ... and so, we feeling uncertain.

Check here, scroll down to the T30/T45 vs Cerwin Vega L36:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=540

The whole ethos of Bill's designs is to beat commercial offerings, not just in financial cost (the money is saved because the builder absorbs the cost allocated in commercial variants) but also in performance! So a T45, or a T48, will beat the hell out of a CVL36 in both those departments

There's no particular need for conversations to go via PM either. It's a public forum, and those that take the time to read all threads end up learning more too...

We're thinking the Tuba 30's, the Table Tuba, and the TLAH now. Richard's going to have to read the plans over when he wakes up. This has been an eye-staying-opening exchange! We're happy that you guys are here to help us out.

I don't believe in golden ears. I don't DJ so I can't see the file extension but me and my buddies can tell the difference between a lifeless song and one full of dynamics. The songs that sound full of life seem to be the DJ's playing large flac files and the ones that sound lifeless are usually temp top40 DJ's playing mp3's. Most likely the mp3's are of questionable quality as in my car system I can't tell the difference with a high bitrate mp3 and a CD. I'm not really experienced with itunes but it just raised a red flag. Sirius satellite sounds decent but it seems they use some smilely face eq because the tone is different than it should be. Wasn't sure what protocols itunes uses. I'll let others chime in.

The master tuning them comes from the sound triangle. To get good sound you need all 3, room acoustics, great gear, and tuning. Just like a guitar. No matter the quality of gear you use, you have to spend some time fiddling the dials to get it right. No brand out there is plug and play excellence, to get the magic it takes a bit of time to learn how to tune it. Speaker placement, delay, EQ, spacing the speakers, etc is a learned skill that comes with experimenting. Anyone can learn it but like any other skill you have to work at it for a bit.

Most genres 2:1 outdoors is enough but for EDM, yes 3:1 if not 4:1 outdoors. That's for full on concert volume levels, for lower levels less would be fine. This is a buddy of mines outdoor system, 4 Otop 12's with 6 dual lab12 T60's. He uses this for EDM and is happy with the balance. Understand that this is for concert level sounds. For 250 people up close this will full on melt your face and turn your body to jello .