On Board Amp

Is this amp OK?
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: On Board Amp

#31 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

DR200 is quite capable to 100Hz, and the T30 response is rising above 100Hz anyway. The response of the individual speakers isn't what matters, it's their combined response and output that does.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: On Board Amp

#32 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Paddlsonic wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:38 am Am i right in thinking this product https://www.parts-express.com/b-52-actp ... --299-2336 , has a set crossover at 100hz?
i was thinking of using this sub amp on my subs and Dayton full range amp on the DR200 tops with the delta pro 8a . It seems like the DR's drop off a bit above that, around 130hz? I guess i need a sub amp that has variable crossover to cover the 100-130hz range??

or am not right in thinking that?

cheers
you need a speaker processor like a driverack to do this right. You can't control the slope of the crossover point on that plate amp and the the limiter on it is NOT the limiter you need to protect your subs.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Seth
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Re: On Board Amp

#33 Post by Seth »

Paddlsonic wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:38 am Am i right in thinking this product https://www.parts-express.com/b-52-actp ... --299-2336 , has a set crossover at 100hz?
i was thinking of using this sub amp on my subs and Dayton full range amp on the DR200 tops with the delta pro 8a . It seems like the DR's drop off a bit above that, around 130hz? I guess i need a sub amp that has variable crossover to cover the 100-130hz range??

or am not right in thinking that?

cheers
Similar questions were asked in the Q&A section of that page and a PE employee wrote:[Parsed]
...The crossover frequencies are fixed. Low pass filter (powered to sub): 80 Hz, 18 dB/octave Butterworth, Satellite high pass filter (line level out): 100 Hz, 18 dB/octave Butterworth
It may work well enough. Personally, I like having full control of everything and it looks as though not much can be adjusted or even disabled in that one. Even if you did use an outboard DSP, you'd be limited by, and working against the amps preset values. But, again... for your needs it could work just fine.

It states 500W RMS in to 4 ohms. What drivers do you have in your T30's?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Paddlsonic
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Re: On Board Amp

#34 Post by Paddlsonic »

So I will be using delta pro 8's and a melded array in the two DR200's, and one lab12 in each of the two T30's.

I too like the idea of full control over the settings.
The full range plate amp from the beginning of this thread seems like it's a good fit for the DR200's.
It's the sub that's proving slightly more difficult to sort.
i like the Dayton 1200w with dsp, just don't like the price and it's iphone tendencies.

And like Bill said it's the combined response that's where it's at. I'm not experienced enough to say if the combined response from the Dayton full range and the B52 sub will cut it.

If i could just get straight amps with no built-in extra's i'd probably run a driverack to do the settings. Seems a bit of overlap doing plate amps with built in processing and a driverack.

Maybe i just have to bite it and get the Dayton 1200 sub amp to have full control......Course it's all in US dollars, that's big dollar for us down in Australia.

As this is the start of the system build i want to make the right choices up front so i can expand as necessary with ease.

cheers guys

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Seth
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Re: On Board Amp

#35 Post by Seth »

Paddlsonic wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:11 am As this is the start of the system build i want to make the right choices up front so i can expand as necessary with ease.
You haven't said it straight out, but I get the idea this initial setup is for house parties and back yard gettogethers. Killer setup for that BTW. If that's all it is ever going to be, plate amps are a handy and tidy solution, especially if you're able to find one or two with all your digital processing needs built right in. I get the allure of plate amps, but if future scalability is high on your priority list, I would put outboard rack mount amps into the list of considerations. Not only are they more flexible in system scaling, their resale value is retained (especially if you buy them second hand to begin with). They're more easily liquidated to free up funds for future upgrades of your system as it grows.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Bruce Weldy
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Re: On Board Amp

#36 Post by Bruce Weldy »

SethRocksYou wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:36 am
I would put outboard rack mount amps into the list of considerations. Not only are they more flexible in system scaling, their resale value is retained (especially if you buy them second hand to begin with). They're more easily liquidated to free up funds for future upgrades of your system as it grows.
+1000

Powered speakers are fine if you are using one of a stick for an acoustic show - but they are a huge PITA for a PA system of the scale you are describing.

4 cabs means 8 cables with powered speakers. Only 5 with an amp. With powered, you have to run extension cords to the stacks - so even more cables. With an amp and a driverack, you can put speakers wherever they need to be with no power nearby - just get power to the rack and you are in business. You'll have much, much better processing than you get with a cheaper plate amp.

And one of the biggest problems with powered speakers (without getting into the Big-Boy stuff) is that they all have knobs on the back that invariably get moved from gig to gig - meaning you have to check every one of 'em to make sure they are turned on, volume knob set correctly, and that the various "modes" are still properly selected.

They have their place, but once you get past one or two boxes - they are more trouble than they are worth......the caveat of course is if you have a nice large line array with no knobs and pass thru power.....but, that ain't what we are talking about here.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Seth
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Re: On Board Amp

#37 Post by Seth »

Paddlsonic wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:11 am Maybe i just have to bite it and get the Dayton 1200 sub amp to have full control......Course it's all in US dollars, that's big dollar for us down in Australia.
Even if you started out running mono through a secondhand Behringer NU1000DSP (which you can probably pick up local to you for $100 - $200) and utilized it's basic DSP functions just to get you by while you save for the next upgrade... you'll be surprised how much sound you'll get out of it. Especially indoors, with the subs corner loaded, and doubly so (if not more) given the high sensitivity of Bills designs.

No shame in my game, I have one. It's decent. Not 1000 watts, but decent for what it is. IIRC, it actually puts out about 30 volts, a little over 100 RMS x 2 @ 8 Ohms. Still, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the results, especially if you're just using it as a temporary solution.

When you're ready to upgrade, sell it to the next guy who's just getting started for likely close to what you paid. Or, keep it to run the DR200's. Up to you.

An easy, inexpensive, valid option to start with.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Paddlsonic
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Re: On Board Amp

#38 Post by Paddlsonic »

Yes , this is all for FUN alright.

I play the drums as my main instrument, so i'm looking for 1 set (2subs,2tops) for our large rehearsal space. Has to take multiple instruments as well as electronic drums and the occasional mic'd piece from my acoustic set.

The second incarnation would be 2 sets. mainly for some smaller outdoor stuff.

And the 3rd and 4th sets would be added for when we go bush.....

At this stage i want to build one set and see how it goes. The second set should be not far behind. the 3rd and 4th, we'll just see where we are at with the first two.

So you can see how i'm trying to break it up and run a few possibilities.

If i go down the amp and driverack option, is there a drive rack that could handle definitely two but up to four amps that say could be 4 x 500w each (as suggested earlier)??

I can see however i power the speakers a driverack will probably be necessary to pull it all together.

Either way i've started the T30's, great to get going.....

Bruce Weldy
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Re: On Board Amp

#39 Post by Bruce Weldy »

A driverack can handle all the amps you want to throw at it.

More importantly.....if you are building for a band, you really should be considering T39s or T48s, not T30s. The T30 goes lower, but not as loud. And while you might think you want really low, it's just not true for live sound.

I started with 2 T39s and 2 OT12s......and now run what's listed below. I've run all kind of bands and genres - and I highpass at 47.5. That's plenty low enough even outside.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Paddlsonic
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Location: Australia

Re: On Board Amp

#40 Post by Paddlsonic »

thanks Bruce,

I am starting to see the benefits of running amps and driveracks. I'll start looking for something that will run the two subs and tops to start with.

It's sort of a makeup for writing with acoustic and electronic equipment. Once we are in performance mode, it is just about all electronic. My mates sure do love the subsonic wobble....though i take your point on the high pass point.

I'll try my original setup for the rehearsal space. I may change to other speakers as per your suggestion for the live stuff. That could actually make things alot easier having two purpose built rigs.

Cheers

Bruce Weldy
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Re: On Board Amp

#41 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Used Driveracks are available pretty cheap. You don't need the newest model. A PA, PA+, or PX will do everything you need.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
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Re: On Board Amp

#42 Post by Grant Bunter »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:13 pm Used Driveracks are available pretty cheap. You don't need the newest model. A PA, PA+, or PX will do everything you need.
Nothing much related to PA is cheap in Australia, even used...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
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Re: On Board Amp

#43 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Grant Bunter wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:14 am
Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:13 pm Used Driveracks are available pretty cheap. You don't need the newest model. A PA, PA+, or PX will do everything you need.
Nothing much related to PA is cheap in Australia, even used...
Ah......there's no location listed, so I didn't know he was in the land of Crocodile Dundee and high equipment prices...

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: On Board Amp

#44 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:16 am there's no location listed
:wall:

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Seth
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Re: On Board Amp

#45 Post by Seth »

Grant Bunter wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:14 am
Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:13 pm Used Driveracks are available pretty cheap. You don't need the newest model. A PA, PA+, or PX will do everything you need.
Nothing much related to PA is cheap in Australia, even used...
Best I could find in the land down under is $320AUD ($227USD) for a PX... which would work just fine. Just make sure it comes with the measurement microphone or negotiate based on it's not being included.
Gumtree - dbx Driverack PX
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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