Amp(s) for small venue

Is this amp OK?
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harquahalas
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Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Amp(s) for small venue

#1 Post by harquahalas »

I'm working on putting together a sound system for a 30'x50' venue. The plan currently is 2 TLAH Pro corner wall mounted, 4 T-24 under the stage and 2 wedgehorn 8 or 10 on the stage. I will be running off a Soundcraft Ui24R rack mount digital mixer. I've never had to run more than a couple PA speakers off an amp and don't fully understand crossover and wattage. Should I be daisy chaining the speakers off of a single amp, or should I be running a separate amp for each pair of speakers? Suggestions on size, make and model much appreciated as well. Sorry I have so many noob questions.

Grant Bunter
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#2 Post by Grant Bunter »

The "what/which amp" part of your question can't really be answered until you decide what drivers you're going to use in each cab, and in the case of the WH8 and 10, which of those you will build.
Be prepared: we talk in volts rather than watts, you can measure volts, but watts are a calculation which is difficult to do on the fly.

You can daisy chain, or parallel, 2 x T24 cabs per amp channel for subs. So one amp there.
Another amp with one cab per side for your TLAH Pro's if running in stereo, or two on one amp channel for mono. Mono is fine live.
Another amp for 2 monitor feeds, that's one WH per channel. If your soundcraft doesn't have inbuilt EQ for your auxillary sends, you will need outboard EQ.

All subs and mains amps need to get their signal from a multi purpose DSP unit, which will do crossover/high pass/low pass and brick wall limiting. The brick wall limiting part is absolutely mandatory for your subs, and because of that you need to factor it into your budget.
Best value for that IMHO is the DBX driverack series because it also has EQ.

That should give you a bit to chew on for a while...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#3 Post by harquahalas »

Thanks so much for the info Grant, on both of my posts ;) I plan to do the standard recommended speakers for each cab, as I don't want to go over budget upgrading speakers. Leaning towards the wedgehorn 8, but welcom suggestions there too. This will be mainly a piano recital hall, but want to be prepared for the occasional band, though I don't expect we would ever be doing anything extremely heavy.

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#4 Post by Grant Bunter »

When you build the subs go for premium drivers!
I understand the 3010LF is currently withdrawn by Eminence (apparently it's going to be redesigned), but still available through some sellers.

I built WH8's. They are fine for acoustic guitar/vocals and other "lighter" uses, but not ok for bass/drums/keyboards...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#5 Post by harquahalas »

I think the 10s wouldn't really change my cost too much. Is speakerhardware.com a good source, or should I be putting together the parts I need elsewhere? The kits seem convenient and fairly priced at a glance.

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#6 Post by harquahalas »

Any thoughts on the 10LF? I know it would be heavier, but the speakers will be stationary, so weight isn't an issue.

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#7 Post by Grant Bunter »

Leland Crooks and family own and run speakerhardware.com
Lealnd is a forum member here, and authorised BFM builder, and their service is fantastic.
You will do well buying from them.

The 3010lf will have the highest output, 50-55V IIRC.
The kappa pro 10lf has an output max of 45V.

I've been meaning to ask about your stage size too. How big is it? This relates to your plans to put subs under it..
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#8 Post by harquahalas »

Well, I will be building the stage, so my plan was to build accordingly. Was thinking 18" of space underneath to leave room for the T-24. The entire building, which is a space that shares a wall with the piano store I work at, is still in planning stages for where walls and everything will be. Are options are limited by a set of support beams that run the length of the building, dividing the 60' depth into 2 30' sections. Right now, the stage is planned to be 30' long and 13' deep.

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#9 Post by Grant Bunter »

13" deep is ok then.
The mouths of the subs cannot be between 2' and 8' from a boundary (ie the rear wall) or frequency cancellations will result...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#10 Post by harquahalas »

Gotcha Grant. Very grateful for all of the wonderful tips. So the TLAH Pro I assume is good with the recommended drivers? And perhaps the 4 T-24 with the 3010LF and the 2 wedgehorn, maybe the 10 with the 2510 is best? Unless you think any of the speaker choices should be changed for something else. I bought the complete CD plans, so I can build any of them.

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#11 Post by harquahalas »

By the way, this is all hurting my brain so much, I would probably at this point buy whatever amps you would recommend and build all my speakers to your recommendations as well.

Grant Bunter
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#12 Post by Grant Bunter »

harquahalas wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:28 pm By the way, this is all hurting my brain so much, I would probably at this point buy whatever amps you would recommend and build all my speakers to your recommendations as well.
That's the one thing you can't do!
Part of the process of what you're undertaking is learning about it all.
Your venue, your name, your gear, and your decisions.
You need to know all this stuff, so you can run it.
It's a brain hurting process lol.

I'm not going to second guess Bill's agreement with your proposal for TLAH pro's.
I might have selected different options, but that's me, and not you.
I don't want to confuse the issue by introducing alternatives at this point, or your brain will hurt more...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
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Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#13 Post by Tom Smit »

About the T24 cabs, I don't think that they will keep up with the TLAHPro. As seen in the charts, it takes a V-plated pair of 16" cabs to put out 100 db, which happens to be the average output of a single TLAHPRo. Combine that with the fact that the TLAHPro has output down to 60 hz, and, sub frequencies need to be increased to have the same apparent volume as higher frequencies.
TomS

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#14 Post by harquahalas »

What subs would you recommend Tom? You don't think the 4 t24s would do it?

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Tom Smit
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#15 Post by Tom Smit »

I'd be more inclined to go the T45 route, loaded with 12" drivers. This, however, forces the cab to be a minimum of 15" wide, which doesn't fit into your scheme of 13" under the stage.

Are you limited to the area below the stage? Is it possible to use corners away from the stage? This would give you more free output, and also allow you to use wider cabs for more output yet.
TomS

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