BillFitzmaurice.info

Since presonus has released the rackmount rm ai series mixers you will find many presonus console mixers on ebay for a bargain. Many for $1,700 and some less instead of the regular $2,500 for the SL 24.4.2 ai for example. These boards are the shizz at this time for budget, but well apportioned mixers. These mixers make all of your outboard gear (except of course amps) impertinent as they have their "fat channel" processing available on every in and output channel, making the dbx for eq, lim and crossover unnecessary.So by by driverack and (whatever that behringer thing was). Also with 10 (in the 24.4.2 ai) aux outputs you can easily have 4 separate monitor mixes and aux fed subs, which can each have the fat channel processing applied to them, as well as the main outputs. Unfortunately Im currently broke, but this will change and I will find one in my future.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PreSonus-Studio ... 1ea0d5f0ba
get it

heavybdrums wrote: These boards are the shizz at this time for budget, but well apportioned mixers. Also with 6 aux outputs you can easily have 4 separate monitor mixes and aux fed subs, which can each have the fat channel processing applied to them, as well as the main outputs.

All true.....I've got two of 'em.

These mixers make all of your outboard gear (except of course amps) impertinent as they have their "fat channel" processing available on every in and output channel, making the dbx for eq, lim and crossover unnecessary.So by by driverack and (whatever that behringer thing was).

....

Nope.....While it does have EQ, it doesn't have the ability to perform crossover and hard limiter functions with the precision necessary to properly set up a system. While it has a hi-pass, there is no low pass....you could "make" a low pass with the EQ, but that has a pretty shallow slope, I'm assuming.

Plus, if you are not sitting at FOH running sound - you don't want Aux fed subs. If you are on stage and running your sound, you should stick with a crossover.

I would never give up my Driverack - it allows me to set my system flat for different places and system configs, then use the fat channel on the master out to fine tune.

heavybdrums wrote:http://www.ebay.com/itm/PreSonus-Studio ... 1ea0d5f0ba
get it

That is a very good deal for a 24AI model.

also a pretty good site if you have a presonus board: https://www.facebook.com/groups/236075319847351/

Bruce Weldy wrote:

heavybdrums wrote: These boards are the shizz at this time for budget, but well apportioned mixers. Also with 6 aux outputs you can easily have 4 separate monitor mixes and aux fed subs, which can each have the fat channel processing applied to them, as well as the main outputs.

All true.....I've got two of 'em.

These mixers make all of your outboard gear (except of course amps) impertinent as they have their "fat channel" processing available on every in and output channel, making the dbx for eq, lim and crossover unnecessary.So by by driverack and (whatever that behringer thing was).

....

Nope.....While it does have EQ, it doesn't have the ability to perform crossover and hard limiter functions with the precision necessary to properly set up a system. While it has a hi-pass, there is no low pass....you could "make" a low pass with the EQ, but that has a pretty shallow slope, I'm assuming.

Plus, if you are not sitting at FOH running sound - you don't want Aux fed subs. If you are on stage and running your sound, you should stick with a crossover.

I would never give up my Driverack - it allows me to set my system flat for different places and system configs, then use the fat channel on the master out to fine tune.

fat channel does have a limiter but maybe not appropriate for this type of use, those crown amps that are on sale now http://www.proaudiostar.com/ sound like they may be a good combo w/ 24.4.2 ai, glad to hear that in my longer term project the dbx won't be a totally wasted purchase.

heavybdrums wrote:glad to hear that in my longer term project the dbx won't be a totally wasted purchase.

Absolutely not! I've got three of 'em - one on mains and two on my four monitor mixes. With the anti-feedback, I really don't get hardly any at all ... very rare - only when some knothead tries to hold a mic like a rapper.....

I too am "fun money" short at the moment, but I will have similar digital mixer. Yes.. yes I will.

Thinking of having a fire sale of some of my current equip. Except for the 260 of course.

I soo have the desire to streamline.

Question for you Bruce, are the effects on your boards worth squat? Gotta know if it's worth scraping my mx400.

James Champer wrote: Question for you Bruce, are the effects on your boards worth squat? Gotta know if it's worth scraping my mx400.

I think they are fine. I use the delay on vocals and reverb on drums. I route them from their auxes to two of the sub mixes and use those faders to bring 'em up and down and mute 'em.

Works great for the way I like to work.

Bruce Weldy wrote:I think they are fine. I use the delay on vocals and reverb on drums. I route them from their auxes to two of the sub mixes and use those faders to bring 'em up and down and mute 'em.

Works great for the way I like to work.

Good to know, thanks!

I'm not big on effects, but you've got to have 'em in your toolbox.

James Champer wrote:

Bruce Weldy wrote:I think they are fine. I use the delay on vocals and reverb on drums. I route them from their auxes to two of the sub mixes and use those faders to bring 'em up and down and mute 'em.

Works great for the way I like to work.

Good to know, thanks!

I'm not big on effects, but you've got to have 'em in your toolbox.

The delay and reverb that I have set up are the ones that I found to be to my liking a couple of years ago just sitting in the garage with a mic and testing a bunch of 'em. They've worked for me ever since. I use a single slap back delay and tap the tempo on every song - it really adds a nice touch on vocals. A little reverb on the snare, toms, hat, and ride make the kit sparkle and then it's in ready reserve if a guitar rig is a little too dead.

Bruce Weldy wrote:The delay and reverb that I have set up are the ones that I found to be to my liking a couple of years ago just sitting in the garage with a mic and testing a bunch of 'em. They've worked for me ever since. I use a single slap back delay and tap the tempo on every song - it really adds a nice touch on vocals. A little reverb on the snare, toms, hat, and ride make the kit sparkle and then it's in ready reserve if a guitar rig is a little too dead.

If I end up with a Presonus don't be surprised if I ask you which ones those are. Always good to know what another sound engineer finds usable.

Just to fill in some info..in regards to Bruice and aux fed subs from above..I am mostly going to be at foh. I'm mostly building this system to offer sound services to others, not so much for my band. I like my band and playing in it (have been for 15 yrs) but, the size venues and number of people who show up around here for our band is not worth the trouble or money, so I'm building this for others and some income. I live (south western Va.) near Blacksburg,Va., a town with no worthwhile venues outside of the Va. Tech campus so other than the remote possibility of doing sound for them there's not much there. I have had the opportunity to run sound for some of the bands that fraternities hire for their parties, which is fun and profitable, but not very frequent as they tend to like djs. Blacksburg does have an annual street festival with bands, which I could get into, but around here I think the most happening thing is rural festivals of which there are a few, and becoming more frequent. Other than these, there are a number of good venues in Roanoke that I would like to get into doing sound for as say the bars regular sound provider for bands. And lastly I am into doing sound for bands and have enjoyed it immensely each time I have had the chance and not interested in dj work at all except to have fill music between sets, or to hire the system for someone else to run that crap. In conclusion this system is mostly for doing outdoor events at which I would be running the sound and maybe playing at, with the occasional indoor venue, that's the current plan at least and could change (festivas are seasonal). With the equipment I currently own I am not yet ready to advertise for these services as I am aware that a bad rep. for not having the appropriate gear will follow you, and no rep is better than bad rep.

Bruce Weldy wrote:

heavybdrums wrote: These boards are the shizz at this time for budget, but well apportioned mixers. Also with 6 aux outputs you can easily have 4 separate monitor mixes and aux fed subs, which can each have the fat channel processing applied to them, as well as the main outputs.

All true.....I've got two of 'em.

These mixers make all of your outboard gear (except of course amps) impertinent as they have their "fat channel" processing available on every in and output channel, making the dbx for eq, lim and crossover unnecessary.So by by driverack and (whatever that behringer thing was).

....

Nope.....While it does have EQ, it doesn't have the ability to perform crossover and hard limiter functions with the precision necessary to properly set up a system. While it has a hi-pass, there is no low pass....you could "make" a low pass with the EQ, but that has a pretty shallow slope, I'm assuming.

Plus, if you are not sitting at FOH running sound - you don't want Aux fed subs. If you are on stage and running your sound, you should stick with a crossover.

I would never give up my Driverack - it allows me to set my system flat for different places and system configs, then use the fat channel on the master out to fine tune.

Thanks Bruce, understood. But In the plans for the subs, is there a reason why a band pass filter (hp @ 40hz. & low pass @ 100+hz) can't be installed in the sub? (prolly a dumb question)

heavybdrums wrote: But In the plans for the subs, is there a reason why a band pass filter (hp @ 40hz. & low pass @ 100+hz) can't be installed in the sub? (prolly a dumb question)

It can be.....but the passive crossover in the plans is at 150 low pass with only a 6db slope. The high pass in the plans is for high-passing the top not the sub. It's really for use as a bass cab or a small PA situation.

Passive xovers between subs and tops don't sound as good as active....

And the kicker - the cost of a high pass passive filter at 40hz along with the 150hz low pass would be expensive and add weight.

I've been through this with a passive filter on my T24 - Leland and Bill explained it all.