BillFitzmaurice.info

I would like to ask your advice, comments about followings:

I will upgrade my setup to a lighter and more compact one. We are 4 in a small rock cover band. We play in small venues (50-200). I will build 2-4 Dr200s and 2 T39s. We do mixing on the stage most of the time.

Actually I don't have DSP and EQ in my setup.

What do you think about two following options:
1, I should keep my Yamaha mg166cx mixer and buy 2 driveracks for monitor and main PA speakers
2, Buy MackieDL1608 that fulfil DSP, EQ requirements for main and monitors (except auto RTA)

I do not known Mackie at all, but I guess I can do EQ-ing separatelly monitors and main speakers and I can provide filtered signal for the amp of t39. So amplifiers needed only after mackie DL1608.

I would wote to secound option if all features that needed is in Mackie (auto RTA not neccesary for me).

Am I correct? Any other recommandation?

Many thanks for your reply!

You asked for opinions...so here goes.

I wouldn't touch the Mackie if they gave it to me. It is totally dependent on a third party device to even work. If the iPad dies, you have to buy a new one, or no PA. If the iPad has an update, and Mackie isn't on top of it....guess what, no PA.

Oh, and good luck trying to grab a knob in the middle of a song....or how about some monitor feedback - how fast can you get the iPad to the right window to make a change?

Personally, I'd go with one of the new digital boards like Presonus, Soundcraft, etc. They have a lot of features and are easy to use.

You will still need a driverack for crossover, limiter, EQ, etc. You don't have to get a high dollar one. Right now, you can get a PX with a reference mic for $150. You are only running two-way, so it's all you need.

The digital boards have EQ for the monitors and mains also.

+1 on not buying the Mackie. If your iPad bites the dust, so does your mixer. Not cool. Look at A&H Qu series and Soundcraft Si Expression. The A&H has more features and less scalability, the Soundcraft is more scalable but lacks a few features (recording & playback, for instance). A&H iPad app is better, Soundcraft might be a touch easier to use (but they're really similar all in all).

Both boards have enough EQ for everything (31 band graphics that show up on the main faders for great resolution).

If price is an object, get a Driverack PX for your mains processing, they're really cheap right now. If you can spend a little more, get a Driverack PA2.

Thank you for valuable advices! Then I am going to buy a digital board and a pa2.

After a quick searc I find QSC touch mix. Does anybody have any experience with that?

Lustyik wrote:After a quick searc I find QSC touch mix. Does anybody have any experience with that?

Some of the same issues.....you can only see 8 channels at once, no direct access to the monitors....

These, like the Mackie, are toys. If you are doing a little combo thing where you set it and forget it....ok. But, I would never use something like this for a rock band with high levels that require some attention while you are in the middle of a set.

My board and band are pretty well set, but I still have to make some on-the-fly adjustments in the middle of a song sometimes. At $1300 for the QSC, I'd add a little and get a real board - that will last a long time and serve you well.

Been using my Presonus 16.4.2 for 3 years. It gets updates from the manufacturer to stay current and I've yet to have a breakdown.

Thanks again! Presonous is available in Hungary as well. I will buy one.

Lustyik wrote:Thanks again! Presonous is available in Hungary as well. I will buy one.

Go try out the various ones and pick the one you feel good with.

Presonus
Allen & Heath
Soundcraft

They are all good boards - go spend a little time playing with 'em and see what you like.

I would seriously consider an X32 rack, available for $1,200.00 (US)
You get 32 processing channels, 16 mix busses, 16 mic pre-amps, 6 aux ins, 6 AUX outs, 8 balanced outs, a control interface on the front panel, plus Ipad, Iphone apps available and a 3rd party Android tablet app available. Ten inch android tablets are available for a hundred dollars (US) these days.

I've used the Mackie mixer, doesn't sound bad but does not come close to an X32 Rack for a few hundred more.

dswpro wrote:I would seriously consider an X32 rack, available for $1,200.00 (US)
You get 32 processing channels, 16 mix busses, 16 mic pre-amps, 6 aux ins, 6 AUX outs, 8 balanced outs, a control interface on the front panel, plus Ipad, Iphone apps available and a 3rd party Android tablet app available. Ten inch android tablets are available for a hundred dollars (US) these days.

I've used the Mackie mixer, doesn't sound bad but does not come close to an X32 Rack for a few hundred more.

Also a feature on the x32 is Behringer's most awesome and excellent reputation for quality and support, not to mention their general acceptance as the pristine standard in the pro audio world.

dswpro wrote:I would seriously consider an X32 rack, available for $1,200.00 (US)
You get 32 processing channels, 16 mix busses, 16 mic pre-amps, 6 aux ins, 6 AUX outs, 8 balanced outs, a control interface on the front panel, plus Ipad, Iphone apps available and a 3rd party Android tablet app available. Ten inch android tablets are available for a hundred dollars (US) these days.

I've used the Mackie mixer, doesn't sound bad but does not come close to an X32 Rack for a few hundred more.

He's not running FOH, he's running his band off the stage. IPads are not conducive to change in the middle of a song with one hand on your guitar and trying to fix a problem with the other....during a 4 beat rest.

Bruce Weldy wrote:He's not running FOH, he's running his band off the stage. IPads are not conducive to change in the middle of a song with one hand on your guitar and trying to fix a problem with the other....during a 4 beat rest.

You have a very valid point there... but I disagree with your findings. It's actually MUCH easier to keep the iPad handy and adjust in a 4 beat rest that to run over to the board and adjust. At least you have the option of hearing while you adjust, which is hard to do in a typical bar-band setting (board on stage, behind the PA). Perhaps I just don't understand what you mean.

There is a slight bit of lag... maybe 0.5 seconds with my original iPad (1st gen). That gets better with newer iPads. The app is laid out so that everything is right where you think it should be. I've checked the other brands' apps... no contest. Mackie got it right. The preamps in the board are VERY forgiving. There are 6 aux sends. In the typical bar band environment, that means up to 6 monitor mixes. Is that necessary? No. But to get even close to that in Presonus' offerings, it's going to cost you double what the Mackie will.

I've been using my DL1608 for a while now. It's been good to me. There was one update to the app that left me frustrated (crashed at random points while docked on the board).... but even when it does that, the board still functions. The iPad is just a remote. It's a remote that has the main control surface, granted. But if you're in a bar band, you don't necessarily have to have 100% real-time control. It does hurt when something goes wrong.... but limping through in an emergency will still get the show done.

Curtybob wrote:

Bruce Weldy wrote:He's not running FOH, he's running his band off the stage. IPads are not conducive to change in the middle of a song with one hand on your guitar and trying to fix a problem with the other....during a 4 beat rest.

You have a very valid point there... but I disagree with your findings. It's actually MUCH easier to keep the iPad handy and adjust in a 4 beat rest that to run over to the board and adjust. Perhaps I just don't understand what you mean.

Run over to the board?

When I'm standing in front of my mic, I can reach the board with my right hand. Not much good to have it where you can't get to it and actually hear what's happening when you make an adjustment.

Guess I'm just anal.....if I'm in charge of sound, it will never be more than and Arm's Length away...(Get it? Arm's Length? That's the name of my band.)

Understood. And cool name!

My approach is different from yours... but same sort of setting, I think. I keep the actual board and connections at the back of the stage, and usually keep the iPad handy. I'd much rather lose my old iPad than the whole board. Keeps the wiring looking neat, too.... at least in my situation.

I don't have anything against the Presonus or A&H boards. Good stuff. Never put my fingers on one of the Soundcrafts... so I have no first hand experience there. The reason I went with the Mackie was that I don't have to have a laptop on stage to take advantage of iPad control... plus the fact that the inputs and outputs just aren't there with the others until you get up to the price point where it just isn't going to pay off in a bar band setting. That said, the Behringer X32 rack wasn't available when I purchased my Mackie. We have a local sound company that uses the regular X32 for FOH on smaller shows, and uses it for the monitor desk on bigger shows. I gotta say, it sounds great. It might be a little too complicated for a small band. But it passed his tests, and he's pretty hardcore. That guy has provided sound for acts ranging from Loretta Lynn, to The Band Perry, to Candlebox.

Curtybob wrote:Understood. And cool name!

My approach is different from yours... but same sort of setting, I think. I keep the actual board and connections at the back of the stage, and usually keep the iPad handy. I'd much rather lose my old iPad than the whole board. Keeps the wiring looking neat, too.... at least in my situation.

I don't have anything against the Presonus or A&H boards. Good stuff. Never put my fingers on one of the Soundcrafts... so I have no first hand experience there. The reason I went with the Mackie was that I don't have to have a laptop on stage to take advantage of iPad control... plus the fact that the inputs and outputs just aren't there with the others until you get up to the price point where it just isn't going to pay off in a bar band setting. That said, the Behringer X32 rack wasn't available when I purchased my Mackie. We have a local sound company that uses the regular X32 for FOH on smaller shows, and uses it for the monitor desk on bigger shows. I gotta say, it sounds great. It might be a little too complicated for a small band. But it passed his tests, and he's pretty hardcore. That guy has provided sound for acts ranging from Loretta Lynn, to The Band Perry, to Candlebox.

The new Presonus AI series don't require the laptop. Mine still does. But, since I only use that in odd situations (never when I'm playing), it doesn't come out very often.

I am pretty active when I mix....(no, I'm not twiddling knobs trying to look busy)....I match the delay tempo of the vocals on every song and ride herd on the delay to make sure it's in the right places. Makes a big difference. While that function is available on the iPad app, it's not nearly as fast as using the board. So, whenever I can, I use the board....and that's about 99% of the time.

I still can't put my faith in the iPad being the only way to use the board....thus, the mackie and QSC digital mixers scare me.