BillFitzmaurice.info

Hello everyone

I am going to construct two Jack 12 lites. I have the plans and received my wood. I do have a question. I already have some PL400 and PL9000. The plans call for glue similar to PL Premium but I was wondering if I can use the glue I have rather than spend needlessly?

Wayne

The cabinets need to be absolutely airtight. PL premium is an expanding glue that fills gaps and will fill even pin sized holes. The glues you listed do not have that expanding property. Follow the plans to the letter for guarranteed results, stray from them at your own peril.

CoronaOperator wrote:The cabinets need to be absolutely airtight. PL premium is an expanding glue that fills gaps and will fill even pin sized holes. The glues you listed do not have that expanding property. Follow the plans to the letter for guarranteed results, stray from them at your own peril.

+1

CoronaOperator wrote:The cabinets need to be absolutely airtight. PL premium is an expanding glue that fills gaps and will fill even pin sized holes. The glues you listed do not have that expanding property. Follow the plans to the letter for guarranteed results, stray from them at your own peril.

+2. Once you use PL Premium, you'll understand why it is the ONLY recommended glue to use. The stuff is incredible. Just to intentionally put too fine a point on it: All BFM cabs rely on the cab being 100% air-tight. That's where part of the magic (science, technically) comes from with these cabs.

Well I do want to do this right, so I will head to the building supplier tomorrow for the premium adhesive.

Turns out there is two grades of premium, 3X and 8X! does it matter which one you use?

halftank wrote:Turns out there is two grades of premium, 3X and 8X! does it matter which one you use?

Just get the regular 3X.. It has a longer curing time, but that just gives you more time to correct any errors you might make

You should be using fasteners of some sorts anyways

Perhaps this would be a good thread to make into a sticky (no pun intended) at the top of the forum; it seems to be a frequently asked question despite the succinct instruction in the plans.

byacey wrote:Perhaps this would be a good thread to make into a sticky (no pun intended) at the top of the forum; it seems to be a frequently asked question despite the succinct instruction in the plans.

I agree. Make a "glue sticky" (how ironic, right?) at the top of ALL the individual cab forums and the build thread page. Explain exactly WHY to use only PL Premium (or the European equivalents), etc, etc. Yes, of course IITP, but for some reason people either don't see it, or "gloss over it" thinking "Yeah whatever, I have 4 gallons of Titebond in the garage...good enough."

Are you sure the generic PL's, aka PL3000, PL4000 ect. aren't expanding in the same way as the PL Premium? I have always been under the assumption that they are expanding.

lowsound

iamlowsound wrote:Are you sure the generic PL's, aka PL3000, PL4000 ect. aren't expanding in the same way as the PL Premium? I have always been under the assumption that they are expanding.

lowsound

Considering it's one of the lowest priced parts, why take the chance?

OK, Just so everyone knows I have used the PL400, PL9000 during many renovation and construction projects hence the reason I had the glues on hand and did not want to spend more money. So I went a bought the PL premium as suggested and finally started putting together my two Jack 12 Lites. . The big thing I noticed about the Premium is that it has a better flow consistence IE is more runny than the other construction adhesives. The PL400 and PL9000 are very thick and do skim over very quickly, although a good adhesive and would still do the job, they are not as work friendly for this type of project, especially the Jack Lites where the joints are smaller. In my opinion the selection of the PL Premium was a good choice.

PS here is a builders trick I learned while building aircraft. You can use a razor blade in a holder for cleaning of the excess glue while it is still wet without making a mess. Just hold the blade perpendicular to the surface and scrap it up in a plowing motion. The scraped up glue can be reused on other edges. Aviation glue is extremely expensive and you get a weight reduction when doing this.

SO BILL! KUDOS FOR YOUR DESIGN.

Wayne

Sorry the bring up an old topic but I was searching through all the polyurethane glue topics. That is what you suppose to do as a 'newcomer' and that is lurk, read and (re)search old forum posts for all kind s useful information before asking any questions that (not) has been asked before.


Anyway.

Reading for about two weeks through a lot of posts it seems that most (if not all) are using the Loctite PL Premium for fixating the birch together. Since I am located in Europe and loctite is a) not so much a premium brand in EU and 2) pretty expensive here and hard to find this particular glue.

I have found some good working alternatives so other builders in EU may profit from it.
First of all the 'PL' mark for PolyUrethane glue is most of the times called 'PU' here in Europe.

Most of the primary brand in EU have these PU glues available.

Pattex / Henkel:
PU400
PU450

Bison / Imedio:
TIX
TIX Topspeed
TIX Fiber
PU Max
PU Max Express

UHU:
Polymax
Polymax Express

Ponal (Henkel):
Konstruktion PUR-Kleber

denbraven sealands:
PU-montagefix D4
PU-Constructiontix super

Simson:
PU construction D4
PU Tix
PU Tix express

Rectavit:
Structan
Structan power
250 superfix



Notes:
If PU glues have a EU NEN-EN D4 indicator in the technical datasheet it means it is water-resistant. This also mean the Glue is an expansion type of glue.
Another indicator in the tech sheet is that it needs some moist water if both parts are dry or porous.

I've had a quick look at a few and they look ok - It's very hard to tell unless you actually see it in use.

If you can pick one up locally at a reasonable price to test, I think that's a best way to go.

If you haven't used expanded PU before, it does take some getting use to! The trick is to keep the glue on the wood and not to find it days later in your hair.

halftank wrote: PS here is a builders trick I learned while building aircraft. You can use a razor blade in a holder for cleaning of the excess glue while it is still wet without making a mess. Just hold the blade perpendicular to the surface and scrap it up in a plowing motion. The scraped up glue can be reused on other edges. Aviation glue is extremely expensive and you get a weight reduction when doing this.

Wayne

I use my fingernail or fingertips to scrape away

I wait about an hour or two and by that time the squeeze out is dry enough to not stick and it very easily breaks aways. If longer than four hours, I do have to use some kind of scraper. If longer than 24 hours, chisels come out.

Since I have an empty bottle from yesterday here is what is listed if that helps: ASTM D8498, APA AFG-01, ASTMC557, HUD UM 60a

The main thing about it is the expanding property it has. Gorilla glue has this but it's too thin according to some of the comments i've seen.