BillFitzmaurice.info

First, my apologies if this is in the wrong category... it's a processor question but not for a BFM setup...

My friends and I will be doing a small dance music event in a public park this Saturday. It looks like we'll be using my Crown CE 1000 to drive two Yorkville YX 12s. http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/yx/product/yx12/ and we'll have a Yorkville LS 700p for our sub http://yorkville.com/legacy/loudspeaker ... ct/ls700p/

I have a DBX PA but haven't yet had the opportunity to use it (still working on building my own BFM system and don't have my own cabs to hook use it with in the meantime)

I'd still like to use the Driverack for our processing on Saturday. I'm wondering if it'll be worth my while to get an RTA mic before the event and use the auto EQ function or if there's some recommended pre-sets. I've read a lot that indicates there is usually a little bit of additional tweaking required when using the auto EQ, but I'm wondering if I'm doing it with such a small set-up that it will be good enough... and if it's not ... how steep of a learning curve am I looking at before I know enough to make adjustments that will help?

My knowledge of the processor is at this level atm:

But I want to be armed with a reasonable amount of knowledge because I don't want some other noob thinking they need to step in and adjust things on my processor and make me

Got as far as using the setup wizard to program a 2 way setup with a Crown CE 1000 amp for the tops. Yorkville tops and self-powered sub aren't available as options so I just selected 'custom' on the cabinets. I got the sub high pass set at 40 hz and low pass at 100 hz with the tops high passed at 100 hz.

Not fiddling with EQ since I have no system hooked up...

I would like to protect the speakers. We're renting them and will have to pay for repairs should anything get blown. We have a few DJs that redline the mixer no matter how many times I get on my soapbox about it and no matter how many times I ask them to stand on the dance floor and listen to the distortion they're sending through. What I'd essentially like to do is set the limiter so it can do the job of redline cop so I don't have to. Any tips on that?

According to their specs on the sub, their 700 watt amplifier utilizes 480 watts maximum from the AC line. Let's call it a 450W amplifier. As an educated guess, 3 db down from that, 225W would probably be a safe continuous operating level. What you need to do now is figure out the load impedance of the speakers, most likely 4 ohms, and measure the voltage across them at the limiter threshold. This equates to 30V RMS.

A rental company probably wouldn't be too happy that you are opening up their speakers.

The mid highs probably won't be beat up as badly as that little sub. Being an outdoor event, I doubt that sub is going to be any where near enough speaker for a moronic DJ that likes to run everything into the red.

byacey wrote: A rental company probably wouldn't be too happy that you are opening up their speakers.

???

What's he opening up by using the limiter on the driverack? Or, did I miss something?

According top the link, that's a self powered sub, with a line level feed with an unknown input gain level. He would have to measure the voltage at the speaker terminals inside the cabinet, with the internal power amp gain wide open to be able to set the limiter properly.

Edit: Apparently they have a limiter of some sort in the power amp, but who knows at what point it starts limiting?

byacey wrote:According top the link, that's a self powered sub, with a line level feed with an unknown input gain level. He would have to measure the voltage at the speaker terminals inside the cabinet, with the internal power amp gain wide open to be able to set the limiter properly.

Edit: Apparently they have a limiter of some sort in the power amp, but who knows at what point it starts limiting?

Ok, now I see where you are going. He can still limit the system by just cranking it up once they get it set up - run it to -0- (if it isn't distorting already), then set the limiter so that pushing up the main fader won't change the output.

With off the rack systems you don't really know what it should be limited to, so opening it up and trying to set it the way we do wouldn't be any more productive than just running it up to distortion, then backing down and setting the limiter there.....or maybe even a little below if you are using someone else's gear and are liable for repairs.

Bruce Weldy wrote: He can still limit the system by just cranking it up once they get it set up - run it to -0- (if it isn't distorting already), then set the limiter so that pushing up the main fader won't change the output.

This is pretty much what I'm going for... hopefully to teach Mr. Redline happy pants a valuable lesson in natural consequences... he redlines, the limiter kicks in and nothing gets any louder. But he might be oblivious to that if he's already oblivious to things sounding like s#!t when he redlines...

We're limited to 85 db at 100 feet in the park anyway. We pretty much always push that boundary but a smaller system with limiting goes a long way in convincing that we are trying to comply!

This is why I thought the approximate -3db point would be a wise level to set the limiter at, being a rental unit and all.

I doubt you'll be getting 85db at 100 feet outdoors with that little sub. Mid-highs maybe.

MisterB wrote:This is pretty much what I'm going for... hopefully to teach Mr. Redline happy pants a valuable lesson in natural consequences... he redlines, the limiter kicks in and nothing gets any louder. But he might be oblivious to that if he's already oblivious to things sounding like s#!t when he redlines...

If there's anything I've learned since starting to use my kit for parties it's that DJs love to crank everything because they have zero concept of what a signal path is. On occasion you'll get one who only clips the output from the DJ mixer and a quick word with him usually sorts this "I have control over the final volume level, you don't so if you want it louder give me a nod".

Then there's the guys who are redlining the fucking gains on the individual channels... These guys need a hammer to the fucking hands because they have no clue whatsoever. These are the people who use the maximum output the mixer gives as a limiter because they can't use a gain knob to adjust output per track on the fly. Basically they're lazy and clueless and usually awful to work with.

Strangely enough when the guys I work with play on the system everything is kept at 0db and everything sounds perfect because they understand what the system is all about; clarity.

Oh and if you're using a Pioneer DJM mixer it'll sound about a million times worse than an Allen & Heath when it redlines. A&H mixers have some sort of limiting built in which sounds far less crappy than the Pioneer stuff, it's just a pity their mixer layouts are dumb as all hell.

I just wish Pioneer mixers could be set up to redline at 0db...

Put a DI box with a switchable pad between Djm out and the font of house mixer or lms. That should fix the hot output signal of the mixers.

In a pinch, a good attenuator is a pair of wire cutters applied to the line cord for the offending DJ's mixer.

Bas Gooiker wrote:Put a DI box with a switchable pad between Djm out and the font of house mixer or lms. That should fix the hot output signal of the mixers.

Aye but when the output you're feeding your desk mixer is distorted then you're fucked anyway whether it's too much for the desk or otherwise.

Things turned out well. 88h88, we were fortunate to have an Allen and Heath mixer. Nice indeed!

For the most part, it seems that a lot of my fellow psytrance DJs are a little more aware of sound quality and avoiding clipped signals. Personally, I adjust the gains throughout my set. Even on the same album or compilation, tracks aren't mastered at a consistent volume. I've learned to trust the level readouts on mixers and just make sure I keep incoming levels consistent with what's already coming out on the mains.