BillFitzmaurice.info

So after finishing my 1st of 2 T24's, I'm reconsidering the rest of my setup. I'm mainly playing pre-recorded music on my PC or turntables for parties and small gatherings or just myself, so no T60's or DR's needed . I'll get a DCX in future and build some new tops.

Here's my current setup: PC/T.T. -> American DJ Q-2221 -> Alesis M-EQ230 (currently disconnected from the chain) -> Carvin DCM1000 -> Carvin PM15 (2) and T24 (1of2)

I also have 2 Peavey SP1's that I put new horn drivers in to flip for a few bucks. They're as big as my T24!

So any input or constructive criticism for my shoe-string setup?

I'm not more familiar with any of the signal chain than 5 minutes of googling can get me....so I may have missed some details.

1) Crossover
I do not notice any crossover in the system. That means that both the tops and subs are getting a "full range" signal. This is probably the most "noticeable" "flaw" in the current setup. Get the DCX as soon as practical. I would even push the second T24 to get the DCX.

2) Sound card
There is no mention of an external sound interface from the laptop to the mixer. At this point, really ANY sound interface would be an improvement over a built in headphone jack.

In the ~$200 range, the Focusrite 2i4 is a solid card, the mic pre-amps are better than expected at that price point. You may find it "better" to run the TT's into the Focusrite card, and then the laptop out to the mixer. Seriously. That really could improve the sound as the mixer is probably better off with a "line level" signal rather than a "phono level" signal.

In the ~$100 range, the Native Instruments Audio 2 is a good value (and it comes with a "free" license for Traktor Pro). This card recently underwent a re-design and was made slightly smaller. I have not gotten hold of a new version to see if the basic performance is still the same...I suspect that it is. This is a card with "outs" only.

Below that price point, there are a LOT of misses, and a few "close enough's" for sound cards. The Behringer UCA-222 (and similar UCA models) are about $20 and really are "OK"...use the RCA jacks for the output, not the headphone jack. There is about 4dBu difference in output with the RCA connections, and that is enough to make a difference.

3) After that....

From where you are, after a crossover and a sound interface...what comes next depends more on your usage than on anything else.

In either case, plan on upgrading the mixer in the next 3 or 4 "steps" of your journey...what you get will depend on how you are using the system. If you are more into live sound with some DJing, the A&H Zed 10(FX) mixer is a nice entry level option. If you are more DJing with (almost) no live sound, the Denon X500 or Vestax 004xl mixers are easy to find used and are great value for $$$.

If you are primarily focused on "DJing" as an artform...then I would look at controllers. There are a LOT of options for controllers, and it is a fast moving area of technology. But this seems to be one of the directions that DJing is going...and I can personally tell you that it is a LOT of fun.

If you are primarily focused on increasing your PA capabilities...then I would look at building Jacks. These can be used "stand alone" in a LOT of small room applications. Adding the T24(s) will make a nice difference in a smaller space. Frankly, I would not build another T24, but would build T39's 20" wide 3012LF loaded instead.

--Stan Graves

+1 on the DCX/Driverack as your next purchase. You'll get the system running much better with it, and you will also have the bonus that once limited (through the DCX/DRack) you cannot blow a driver < It could pay for itself right there! You need to be splitting that signal into mids/tops and bass and then amplifying each separately - are you already doing this via a HPF or LPF switch on those amps?? I think that you really need to be high-passing your subs as well (you do with any of the bigger BFM subs) so that no frequency below ~40Hz (unsure on exact figure for T24 - it'll be in the "manual") reaches the sub.

If you opted for the Driverack, then you also get the added bonus of RTA ability, which can make even shitty speakers sound half decent! As DBX has just bought out the PA2, you may be able to pick up a new PA+ (the model it's replacing) for not too much dollar Go with the DCX and you'd need a separate box to RTA. However, if you could borrow someone's RTA box, you could then RTA using that and then plug in the values into your EQ, which would work just as well

Hope this helps, if not, then feel free to ask for more info

45hz for the t24 escape.

Even now I'd put the Alesis MEQ230 back in the chain.

I have one and they are handy enough unit in 1RU space. Since it's 2 x 31 bands, you can use one each for a left and right channel from your mixer, set them the same so you can run stereo (if that's what you're going to do) to your DCX when purchased. 1/4" to XLR unbalanced will be fine with the very short patch leads required.

On any scale, you're starting to delve into pro PA, and EQ for that is essential.

edit: Just looked up the SP1's. Other forums seem to say they have a large hole from 500-800Hz (it does drop about 5dB from 500 to 800Hz on the SPL chart here: http://assets.peavey.com/literature/man ... 304481.pdf ), they are crossed at 800Hz in the cab, and don't cope nicely with trying to bump the hole with EQ
Earlier production cabs had eminence stamped frame drivers and later ones had Peavey Black Widow drivers.
They might get loud, but have some rsponse issues. It sounds like good advice to think about new tops.

To some extent you could use that SPL chart to flatten response of your system a bit...

SoundInMotionDJ wrote:--Stan Graves

1. I don't have a crossover besides the one in the T24 and built in the PM15 tops. Is this a problem if I'm running from the amp -> sub -> top?
2. My PC has an older but nice SoundBlaster sound card.
3. I see no need for anything more than the mixer I currently have. Most of the time I'm playing music off LastFM or Pandora or Grooveshark or 8tracks. Sometimes I'll spin a record if I'm feeling froggy. The pretty much the extent of my "DJ'n".

sine143 wrote:45hz for the t24 escape.

what?

escapemcp wrote: You need to be splitting that signal into mids/tops and bass and then amplifying each separately

My tops and T24 have crossovers. In the plans, it says I can run a top and sub one channel. Wouldn't seperate amps for the tops and subs be unnecessary?

Grant Bunter wrote:Even now I'd put the Alesis MEQ230 back in the chain....Since it's 2 x 31 bands, you can use one each for a left and right channel from your mixer, set them the same so you can run stereo (if that's what you're going to do) to your DCX when purchased.

I read something from Bill about eq's and how they should only limit and not boost frequencys, or something like that. Would it make sense to adjust channel 1 with the top and sub for their frequency range and adjust channel 2 with only top to its usable freq's? Essentially cutting all frequencies it can't play off completely?

P.S. I'm NOT using my Peavey horns in my setup. They're just way too much for what I want/have

Seems you're a bit lost. Answers in red and some explanations:

jimbo7 wrote:

SoundInMotionDJ wrote:--Stan Graves

1. I don't have a crossover besides the one in the T24 and built in the PM15 tops. Is this a problem if I'm running from the amp -> sub -> top?

I get how you've set up now. My first question is, are you ever playing your system as loud as you can, or as loud as it will go?

Here's a quote from the T24 plans:
"While bi-amping is the only way to go for high power PA, a passive crossover can be used for backline or medium level PA applications, allowing the use of a single amp channel to drive the T24 and a top. You must use a crossover".

If you answered yes to my question, then that is not a medium power situation, it's a high power situation. In which case, you should be set up for that, by using a limiter/crossover DSP unit before your amp, and not relying on the internal components you built with.
If you never crank your DJin to max, and never will, we can only assume what you do now is ok.

2. My PC has an older but nice SoundBlaster sound card.

3. I see no need for anything more than the mixer I currently have. Most of the time I'm playing music off LastFM or Pandora or Grooveshark or 8tracks. Sometimes I'll spin a record if I'm feeling froggy. The pretty much the extent of my "DJ'n".

sine143 wrote:45hz for the t24 escape.

what?

Look in your T24 plans under "protecting your driver". Once you build your second T24, if you go the limiter/crossover/DSP way, then you have to set a high pass on the T24 output channel to 45Hz. If you went to 4 x T24 somewhere down the track, you could change that high pass value to 40Hz, as specified in the plans.

escapemcp wrote: You need to be splitting that signal into mids/tops and bass and then amplifying each separately

My tops and T24 have crossovers. In the plans, it says I can run a top and sub one channel. Wouldn't seperate amps for the tops and subs be unnecessary?

Go back to my question on 1. If you run everything as loud as it can go, it's not a medium power situation and you should be setting up like escapemcp suggests

Grant Bunter wrote:Even now I'd put the Alesis MEQ230 back in the chain....Since it's 2 x 31 bands, you can use one each for a left and right channel from your mixer, set them the same so you can run stereo (if that's what you're going to do) to your DCX when purchased.

I read something from Bill about eq's and how they should only limit and not boost frequencys, or something like that.

IIRC that's not all Bill (and lots of others say) about using EQ. You should avoid large boosts in frequencies, more so below 100Hz. Limiting frequencies with EQ is best wherever possible.

Would it make sense to adjust channel 1 with the top and sub for their frequency range and adjust channel 2 with only top to its usable freq's? Essentially cutting all frequencies it can't play off completely?

Until you build your other T24, yeah you could do that, but it won't cut off the frequencies you pull down on channel 2 completely because it can't. How much you reduce by would depend on where the gain slider is on each channel, but if you set that gain slider at 0 dB or less, you make that channel a lot quieter.

P.S. I'm NOT using my Peavey horns in my setup. They're just way too much for what I want/have
In that case they can go. Sell em

jimbo7 wrote:

SoundInMotionDJ wrote:--Stan Graves

1. I don't have a crossover besides the one in the T24 and built in the PM15 tops. Is this a problem if I'm running from the amp -> sub -> top?
2. My PC has an older but nice SoundBlaster sound card.
3. I see no need for anything more than the mixer I currently have. Most of the time I'm playing music off LastFM or Pandora or Grooveshark or 8tracks. Sometimes I'll spin a record if I'm feeling froggy. The pretty much the extent of my "DJ'n".

Ok...now that you've clarified your intended usage...

The crossover is still a good idea and the best "next step" recommendation that I can make. A Sound Blaster card is sufficient for what you are doing. The mixer may be overkill.

A reasonable 2.1 (or 5.1...the key is more than "2" and the ".1") receiver will likely be more versatile for home use. The TT, the computer, the TV, and even the radio can all be inputs, and the receiver will likely have a crossover built in that will more than do the job. Heck, the receiver may even provide 20-ish watts per channel amplification....which would be overkill in this setup.

The SLA or the TLAH would be GREAT in a (semi) permanent installation at your house.

But, after hearing what you have going on...I would recommend a pair of Davids. For music these are really, REALLY good. And they can be safely fed with a full range signal. The crossover parts are $$$...but aside from that, they will still bury any of the other speakers you have, and look great while doing it. Pair them with a decent 2.1 receiver and never look back.

--Stan Graves

I just checked out your Carvin DCM1000 amp.

350W/ 8ohms per channel. That's 52V. That can be enough to blow your T24 cab driver.
What driver did you put in your T24?

Forgot to also mention that I never turn the amp past noon. It gets uncomfortably loud when I get to the yellow on the VU meters. This is also when it becomes obvious that my entry-level tops can't keep up.

I may just set the t24 aside till i get the other one built along with some SLA's. I'll then promptly put the Carvin tops on craigslist.

Anyone wanna trade my Peavey SP1's for a case of beer?