BillFitzmaurice.info

People hire me to come out and supplement their sound, I end up completely bypassing their system and running my own. Problem is I know you DO NOT use folded horn tubas with anything other then more folded horn tubas. Fortunately once the tubas are on, all questions cease, unfortunately until then. I don't know how to explain WHY you don't run direct and tubas together.

I'll take a non-technical stab at it...


The signal reaches the speakers at the same time, yet the folded horn's sound takes 7-9 feet to get out of the cabinet, while the direct radiator is instant. The difference in length alone can create phase issues.

I'm sure there are many more reasons, but's that's what I'd tell 'em. They could understand that.

You can also say that those issues are not as easily fixed as just delaying the direct radiators to "match" the t60, as it has its own unique phase characteristics.

Armchair Pirate wrote:I don't know how to explain WHY you don't run direct and tubas together.

This caution is not specific to folded horns.

The caution exists in ANY situation when the SAME signal is sent into DIFFERENT cabinets. The cabinets will have a different response, with different dispersion patterns in the space. Getting reasonable integration between those different responses requires independent EQ on each cabinet type at a minimum...and may require more than that, depending on the details. The intrinsic delay of the horn path is another complication that must be accounted for.

Armchair Pirate wrote: I don't know how to explain WHY you don't run direct and tubas together.

Phase response. Since they won't even know what phase response is they should be sufficiently impressed that you do and leave it at that.
Or you could just say that their tinker toy subs suck and shouldn't even be in the same room with yours.

+1 to the tinker toy sub comment. I'm fairly sure nothing I've seen people use around here remotely touches the capabilities of my BFM cabs. I know for sure that my T60 is > my 2 15 inch direct radiator subs (albeit non-Pro subs) in output disregarding the distortion issue.

SoundInMotionDJ wrote:This caution is not specific to folded horns.

The caution exists in ANY situation when the SAME signal is sent into DIFFERENT cabinets. The cabinets will have a different response, with different dispersion patterns in the space. Getting reasonable integration between those different responses requires independent EQ on each cabinet type at a minimum...and may require more than that, depending on the details. The intrinsic delay of the horn path is another complication that must be accounted for.

So how do we get away with melded arrays for a bottom cab and compression drivers for the top? Can someone explain this as I was mulling over this very question this afternoon whilst duratexing! Thanks

remember, you can use seperate cab types, etc when they are more than 2 wavelengths apart. in the hi frequency band, this becomes a very small distance. Hi frequency is also VERY directional, (esp in the vertical plane with these cabs) so there is very little crossover between the soundwaves. Someone bouncing on a trampoline is likely to hear some combing though.

escapemcp wrote:

SoundInMotionDJ wrote:This caution is not specific to folded horns.

The caution exists in ANY situation when the SAME signal is sent into DIFFERENT cabinets. The cabinets will have a different response, with different dispersion patterns in the space. Getting reasonable integration between those different responses requires independent EQ on each cabinet type at a minimum...and may require more than that, depending on the details. The intrinsic delay of the horn path is another complication that must be accounted for.

So how do we get away with melded arrays for a bottom cab and compression drivers for the top? Can someone explain this as I was mulling over this very question this afternoon whilst duratexing! Thanks

sine's response is good.
I'll add to it as well.
When you have a melded array in one cab and a CD in another, it's only the HF section that is different right?
The mid driver and horn path in both cabs is otherwise identical.
Yes, there is some time difference between the two HF sections you mentioned, plus the third, or flat array. The HF in all three sections leaves the cab at different times.
In order, flat would be first, slightly before the melded (which has it's elements sitting back slightly further) then the CD horn.

Enough people here biamp, and that allows to also time delay HF compared to mids, so you can have the sound leaving the cabs at the same time, and further, adjust different HF as well...

HAHAHAHAHAHA to the tinker toy comment. Thank you for all your feedback.