I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

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Disco-inferno
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#61 Post by Disco-inferno »

It's a pity Tim you're not going to build melded piezo arrays, piezo's don't have to sound bad at all! if filtered correctly that is of course. most of the times you hear them in an of the shelve speaker they haven't got more then a small capacitor and maybe a series resistor. that's why they have a bad rep!

I'm not saying they are high end transducers but the rep they have is because of manufacturers wanting to build the absolute cheapest way and making a quick buck!

88h88
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#62 Post by 88h88 »

When it comes to the piezo arrays in these speakers I've heard kit far more expensive sound far far worse at which you think "why would I bother spending the money?".

...well, if you're not stupid that is.
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#63 Post by gdougherty »

Disco-inferno wrote:It's a pity Tim you're not going to build melded piezo arrays, piezo's don't have to sound bad at all! if filtered correctly that is of course. most of the times you hear them in an of the shelve speaker they haven't got more then a small capacitor and maybe a series resistor. that's why they have a bad rep!

I'm not saying they are high end transducers but the rep they have is because of manufacturers wanting to build the absolute cheapest way and making a quick buck!
They do sound decent at moderately loud sound levels. When you need more though, you don't want to push them. You do have to spend quite a bit more to get better sound that will handle a higher output level.

I hit that point and I'm glad I spent the extra, but my needs aren't the same as the average user. It wasn't until I stepped up to larger rooms and rock concert levels that my rig wasn't cutting it. I could have built more cabinets but then I get into other issues that need solving.

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DJPhatman
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#64 Post by DJPhatman »

Tim, the Beyma, in all likelihood, will sound better than piezos because the piezos are way more sensitive to distortion, which happens when electronic components are pushed to the limits. You can use the Beyma over the melded array, but know that you are giving up the wider dispersion of the melded. Does this make a difference for your application? Only you can decide. Don't judge the melded array before hearing one, using the correct brand, type and the recommended filters, all of which contribute to the over-all sound. Even gdougherty says the melded arrays sound good, just for his particular application, the Beyma's are better suited.
gdougherty wrote:They do sound decent at moderately loud sound levels. When you need more though, you don't want to push them. You do have to spend quite a bit more to get better sound that will handle a higher output level.
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Tom Smit
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#65 Post by Tom Smit »

gdougherty wrote:
Disco-inferno wrote:It's a pity Tim you're not going to build melded piezo arrays, piezo's don't have to sound bad at all! if filtered correctly that is of course. most of the times you hear them in an of the shelve speaker they haven't got more then a small capacitor and maybe a series resistor. that's why they have a bad rep!

I'm not saying they are high end transducers but the rep they have is because of manufacturers wanting to build the absolute cheapest way and making a quick buck!
They do sound decent at moderately loud sound levels. When you need more though, you don't want to push them. You do have to spend quite a bit more to get better sound that will handle a higher output level.

I hit that point and I'm glad I spent the extra, but my needs aren't the same as the average user. It wasn't until I stepped up to larger rooms and rock concert levels that my rig wasn't cutting it. I could have built more cabinets but then I get into other issues that need solving.
Note: here is an argument that clearly supports piezo arrays, even though the user moved in another direction due to his situation.
gdougherty, thanks for clear statement!
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#66 Post by gdougherty »

DJPhatman wrote:Tim, the Beyma, in all likelihood, will sound better than piezos because the piezos are way more sensitive to distortion, which happens when electronic components are pushed to the limits. You can use the Beyma over the melded array, but know that you are giving up the wider dispersion of the melded. Does this make a difference for your application? Only you can decide. Don't judge the melded array before hearing one, using the correct brand, type and the recommended filters, all of which contribute to the over-all sound. Even gdougherty says the melded arrays sound good, just for his particular application, the Beyma's are better suited.
gdougherty wrote:They do sound decent at moderately loud sound levels. When you need more though, you don't want to push them. You do have to spend quite a bit more to get better sound that will handle a higher output level.
Actually, as far as overall performance I also find the 2k crossover point too high because of the wide melded dispersion. You end up with a midrange hole off-axis because the 12" response is too narrow compared to the super-wide melded array. You have hf clarity, but the response sounds thin as you get out to the edges. It sounds fine between two speakers due to the coverage of both. In some ways its probably better having at least some clarity rather than the muddier response off-axis of a narrower dispersion pattern, but it doesn't sound that great to my ears either. The diffraction horn is a much better match for the pattern of the 12" horn.

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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#67 Post by byacey »

TimpBizkit wrote: 3: Melded arrays are fiddly for me to put together over a picnic table and difficult to cut with a handheld circular saw.
Please don't try this; I have gory visions of disaster.
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88h88
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#68 Post by 88h88 »

byacey wrote:
TimpBizkit wrote: 3: Melded arrays are fiddly for me to put together over a picnic table and difficult to cut with a handheld circular saw.
Please don't try this; I have gory visions of disaster.
I used a circular saw upside down in a worktable with the trigger ziptied on as a makeshift table saw when cutting the tops/bottoms off the individual tweeters.

You have no idea how careful I was making a jig to do that... :shock:
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ncgrove
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#69 Post by ncgrove »

I just used a cheap miter box and back saw. Got a good arm workout and still have 10 fingers and toes.

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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#70 Post by byacey »

ncgrove wrote:I just used a cheap miter box and back saw. Got a good arm workout and still have 10 fingers and toes.
That sounds like a much more controlled situation! A bandsaw would also be very useful for doing these arrays.
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#71 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

byacey wrote:A bandsaw would also be very useful for doing these arrays.
Only with a good cutting jig. Holding on to parts that you're cutting on a bandsaw can quickly turn it into its cousin, a meat cutting saw. :shock:

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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#72 Post by Rickisan »

NCGrove said... I just used a cheap miter box and back saw.
Going this route next time... with the right saw/blade combo should do just fine. Meatcutting not an option.... :cop:
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Harley
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#73 Post by Harley »

TimpBizkit wrote:Brings me back to the old high school days....
Was that before WWII or just after ?
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#74 Post by Rickisan »

Actually the Fast Moving Blade was only half the fun.... we used to take the male AC plug to the Stationary Belt Sander and wrap one or two strands from a stripped 18Gauge AC cord across the two prongs.

Then we would ask the Shop Teacher for assistance because the Sander wouldn't run... Of course when he plugged it in the direct short across the terminals gave a little snap crackle and puff of smoke and he jumped. He didn't think it was funny and of course we had to play dumb so as not to give ourselves away.

This was mid 1960's. Vietnam era...
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Harley
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#75 Post by Harley »

Rickisan wrote:.. Of course when he plugged it in the direct short across the terminals gave a little snap crackle and puff of smoke and he jumped...
Can't have been much of a penalty for manslaughter in those then.
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