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what's the scoop? I know they have been around a while, but I am thinking about going for one or two. my only concern is the power draw. because they are so light, do they not have a significant power supply? what is the downside to these lightweight amps. I'm talking about mainly the IPR series from Peavey.

DJ Higgumz wrote:what's the scoop? I know they have been around a while, but I am thinking about going for one or two. my only concern is the power draw. because they are so light, do they not have a significant power supply? what is the downside to these lightweight amps. I'm talking about mainly the IPR series from Peavey.

"Old Iron" amps had massive copper wire wound transformers and a gang of large capacitors to keep power supply up to (compared to todays standard anyway) moderately high powered amps.
These amps are often rock solid and perform in adverse conditions.
Downside to this is they weigh a lot, I have two that do 450W/4ohms and they are well over 70 lbs each.

Enter the electronic age and switch mode power supplies, which you find in just about everything nowadays. Switch mode power supplies actually cycle up faster to keep higher voltage rails available at all times and are much more efficient. And they are heaps heaps heaps lighter. This is a lot of where weight savings are gained.

As well as the old iron, I have some Crown XLS drivercores, light as a feather, perform brilliantly.

Power draw should be able to be compared in spec charts from any of the respective companies if that's of terrible concern.
The only downside to these types of amps that I have heard of is that they like "clean" power.
So if you're doing gigs in the middle of no where and at the end if the electricity line and the voltage might drop at times (say 5%) below or above your nominal voltage, these are not for you.
If you're always in town and never have any brown outs, your back will love you for using them.

A few of my gigs will require I use a generator in the near future, I bought a 7kVa genny for that purpose, but I think I will use the old iron amps for those gigs. Significant pre testing may change my mind though.

Hope this helps...

Grant Bunter wrote:Power draw should be able to be compared in spec charts from any of the respective companies if that's of terrible concern.
The only downside to these types of amps that I have heard of is that they like "clean" power.
So if you're doing gigs in the middle of no where and at the end if the electricity line and the voltage might drop at times (say 5%) below or above your nominal voltage, these are not for you.
If you're always in town and never have any brown outs, your back will love you for using them.

A few of my gigs will require I use a generator in the near future, I bought a 7kVa genny for that purpose, but I think I will use the old iron amps for those gigs. Significant pre testing may change my mind though.

Hope this helps...

Just a quick note that I have used my Berry NU3000DSP on gennies without any issues. My mate who has the NU6000 runs his off a genny as well, and he abuses his kit, yet it is still running strong!

I think the best place is to shoot right down the middle of the road here. Horses for courses. I have a switch mode power supply amp (Synq digit 1K0) and I haven't used it properly yet, but it seems ok. The ruggedness of the iron amps seems legend, and they do what they do well. I was researching, as it happens, the iNuke3000 last week and 'Eva' from diyaudio had this to say. Boy did I laugh.:

New class D amplifiers without heat-sinks are the most evolved (and evil) form of programmed obsolescence that I know. They are designed to fail after a few years (just out of warranty) due to thermal cycling, dust build up and corrosion. A fair engineer would never throw air directly at a PCB. This is easy money for a few ones today and lots of garbage and ruin for the planet and us tomorrow.

Consider adding some heat-sinks with thermo-conductive gap filler rather than keeping a fan blowing air directly at a PCB. This is not a trivial work, indeed, it's the work that Behringer was supposed to do.

Charles Jenkinson wrote:I think the best place is to shoot right down the middle of the road here. Horses for courses. I have a switch mode power supply amp (Synq digit 1K0) and I haven't used it properly yet, but it seems ok. The ruggedness of the iron amps seems legend, and they do what they do well. I was researching, as it happens, the iNuke3000 last week and 'Eva' from diyaudio had this to say. Boy did I laugh.:

New class D amplifiers without heat-sinks are the most evolved (and evil) form of programmed obsolescence that I know. They are designed to fail after a few years (just out of warranty) due to thermal cycling, dust build up and corrosion. A fair engineer would never throw air directly at a PCB. This is easy money for a few ones today and lots of garbage and ruin for the planet and us tomorrow.

Consider adding some heat-sinks with thermo-conductive gap filler rather than keeping a fan blowing air directly at a PCB. This is not a trivial work, indeed, it's the work that Behringer was supposed to do.

Eva is a very sharp designer, so what she says is certainly true. But to be fair the dust build-up problem has always been there, as anyone who has opened up a 10-year old CS800 can attest.

Part of the problem is probably that these amps are perceived as being cool, and so it's easy to completely forget that they still need access to a cooling air flow.

Another (related) issue has been that these amps have sometimes been built without the proper attention to how they operate under fringe conditions such as sagging mains voltage, phase shifting loads, high ambient temperature, intermittent connection et cetera. Now, whether this is due to inexperience or the lust for a quick buck is another issue.

However, once all these issues have been adressed there's no reason why a light-weight class D amp shouldn't work just as well as an "old iron" boat anchor. Let's remember that all that weight was primarily there because that was the only way, pre SMPS, to achieve that level of performance.

Charles Jenkinson wrote:'Eva' from diyaudio had this to say. Boy did I laugh.:

New class D amplifiers without heat-sinks are the most evolved (and evil) form of programmed obsolescence that I know. They are designed to fail after a few years (just out of warranty) due to thermal cycling, dust build up and corrosion. A fair engineer would never throw air directly at a PCB. This is easy money for a few ones today and lots of garbage and ruin for the planet and us tomorrow.

I recall much the same said 40 years ago, when transistors began to replace tubes. Google 'Luddite'.

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:

Charles Jenkinson wrote:'Eva' from diyaudio had this to say. Boy did I laugh.:

New class D amplifiers without heat-sinks are the most evolved (and evil) form of programmed obsolescence that I know. They are designed to fail after a few years (just out of warranty) due to thermal cycling, dust build up and corrosion. A fair engineer would never throw air directly at a PCB. This is easy money for a few ones today and lots of garbage and ruin for the planet and us tomorrow.

I recall much the same said 40 years ago, when transistors began to replace tubes. Google 'Luddite'.

They were very active round our way.

wow great info guys thanks!

I have the Peavey IPR 1600 DSP (7lbs.) It might be hard to believe from a package this light, but the power is certainly there...you won't be dissapointed imo.

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:

Charles Jenkinson wrote:'Eva' from diyaudio had this to say. Boy did I laugh.:

New class D amplifiers without heat-sinks are the most evolved (and evil) form of programmed obsolescence that I know. They are designed to fail after a few years (just out of warranty) due to thermal cycling, dust build up and corrosion. A fair engineer would never throw air directly at a PCB. This is easy money for a few ones today and lots of garbage and ruin for the planet and us tomorrow.

I recall much the same said 40 years ago, when transistors began to replace tubes. Google 'Luddite'.

Heh!

But to be fair, Eva designs high power SMPS:s for a living (if I remember correctly), so her perspective is definitely not a Luddite one. More of a professional perfectionist, I'd say.

Rune Bivrin wrote:But to be fair, Eva designs high power SMPS:s for a living (if I remember correctly), so her perspective is definitely not a Luddite one. More of a professional perfectionist, I'd say.

I trust she doesn't design for Powersoft.

Lol. want. powersoft. so. badly.

Ryan A wrote:I have the Peavey IPR 1600 DSP (7lbs.) It might be hard to believe from a package this light, but the power is certainly there...you won't be dissapointed imo.

+1. I own eight of them (one isn't in the photo). They've been great.

I'm in Jamaica and I've seen large sound systems playing and their power conditioners with voltage readouts drop to 95-100volts, primarily when the bass hits. Normally, they'd be getting 120-125volts.

Even though I wouldn't be drawing as much current as them, cause they are using 8+ 18" cabs. I, on the other hand will be going with 4 T39s, probably 8 in the future. Would I be good with these light weights amps or have to stick to the "old iron"?

I was reading up on the Crowns with Drivecore technology and they were designed with these voltage sags in mind.

If the voltage is dropping from 120 to 95V, it sounds like crappy AC power distribution. A power amp with a switching supply may be able to run with voltage this low, but I would think that's getting close to the lower limit.