subharmonic wrote:So lets talk amps. Home audio only please.
Is there advantages to better amps with highly sensitive speakers? I mean if 10 volts is screaming loud, leaving a lot of headroom. Why go with bad boy amps.
Just wanting a general discussion. Personal experiences are a plus.
The better amp is the one that works well with your particular speaker combination and listening preferences. It's easier to discover this if you can find others locally who'll help you swap gear until you get the combination that works.
Tube based gear are least likely to accurately reproduce electrical signals as they amplify and due largely to their output transformers are most likely to be affected by complex loading of the connected loudspeaker. Any yet often the right pairing yields enjoyable results. One of my favorite systems back in the 80's were a pair of Spica TC-50 driven by Dynaco Mark IV 40 watt monoblock amplifiers. The system was not the most detailed but the pairing softened the high end just enough and the system delivered absolutely glorious imaging with very cohesive response through the critical midrange. An M&K Subwoofer, driven by a solid state amplifier of course, provided a very solid and deep bottom end.
Some pairings aren't as obvious. For example, I'm currently using a Crown XLS2000 to drive my Econowave Deluxe HO pair, an extremely efficient system. This came about primarily out of convenience, and I didn't think it would have worked so well, but the simple act of setting the input attenuators at the 12 O'clock position reduced upstream noise to nearly inaudible. The extreme clarity obtained at milli-watt listening levels in my studio is amazing and quite unexpected. And this is the same combination that with the Tuba 30 pair reproduce music still detailed but at incredible volume!
And while the detail when playing for example great 70's recordings from Al Stewart, Fleetwood Mac and The Doobie Brothers is awesome sometimes it's distracting from lesser sources - go figure. Then the slight euphoric effect of even order harmonics from an EL34 tube pair, like in the Dynaco Mark IV becomes more welcome. There's a balance, and changing moods also affect these preferences.
It's not just the noise at low levels, earlier transistor amplifiers introduced switching distortion into the waveform, an attribute that was particularly bothersome at quiet volume but masked at higher volume. For example I have an early Kenwood receiver that is beautiful looking and feature packed but unlistenable for any length of time. It gathers dust on a shelf. My Sansui AU9500 from the same era though sounds wonderful. Success is all in design and execution, not so much by the materials used. Modern amplifiers should not have such issue but as has been famously said, the first watt is the most important, and this is particularly true with efficient speakers.
Sometimes the fit is good but can be improved. The Legacy Audio Classics with dual 10 inch woofers are a very dynamic speaker and sound good with most any amplifier. But to take full advantage they need a robust amplifier with good current delivery, something like the Crown XLS2000, to take control of the woofers, especially but not only at higher volume. Smaller NAD models and the Quad 405 were definitely not up to the task. The Odyssey Stratos in use now is a reasonable match though something like a Rotel 1090 would probably be a better yet without breaking the bank.
I don't buy into a lot of the crap offered by those in the trade. Sure, I subscribe to and read Stereophile, but at a little over a buck an issue why not? It provides food for thought and certainly entertainment on the cheap. It also reminds me that there are a lot of people out there with more money than sense. "The Emperor's New Clothes" comes to mind. Just remember to trust your own knowledge and instinct. Which leads to the final thought below.
Bas Gooiker wrote:If you can get your hands on a Quad 33 / 303 combo, they are great amplifiers. The 405 wich is the successor to the 303 has much greater power but does'nt have the stabilized power supply. They are Brittish made so they might be rare in the states. There are quite a few people who offer refurbished models or even upgraded.
The Quad suggestion above is of particular interest to me and largely what prompted this reply.
I have great respect for Peter Walker and the Quad ESL series of loudspeakers; they were and remain a tremendous achievement in audio reproduction. I am not disagreeing with Bas Gooiker either; the Quad 33 / 303 combo are probably terrific, I've just never heard them.
I have however owned the Quad 34/405 combo (FM4 tuner as well) and was surprised to realize that the 34 preamp was incapable of driving the 405 to full output power. To anyone familiar, there were resistors that could be "fitted" onto the PC boards of the 405 to limit voltage, a safety requirement when driving the ESL's to prevent damage, but this is not what I'm talking about. The preamp simply clips long before the amplifier, a characteristic in which the reverse should be true to insure adequate headroom and full system performance.
I spoke with Mr Walker's son once at a seminar and politely asked his opinion on this to which the response was to the effect that "no one has ever complained before". It was a turning point where I began trusting my own instincts, questioning others where my knowledge and experience fueled the courage of my convictions. Opinion is just that, but learn to listen carefully and trust your own ears.
FYI I still have the 405 though I let the preamp and tuner go long ago. It needs a recap but I probably won't bother. Amplifiers, at least well designed ones operated within limits, should all "sound" the same. Yet in subtle ways they don't and it's difficult to understand exactly why. The Quad 405 and the Carver M 1.5t, two amplifiers I've rotated into systems over the years, both lack a certain kind of detail that's hard to define.
But don't believe just because someone says so. If it sounds good just enjoy the music and heed the words of Stevie Wonder; "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer".
Things like speaker selection, placement and EQ when required are far more consequential than splitting hairs on amplifier selection.
Thanks Tom! 
