BillFitzmaurice.info

I have been at the same Saturday night venue for 3 years now. I had no choice but to build my own BFM rig and keep it at the bar unless I wanted to play through distorted speakers all night. My 2-DR250s have been mostly for fill near me as both monitor and to fill a void in the dj area. My 2-T48s have done a good job for bass, despite the low ceiling issue and horrible acoustics.
Well, the Fri night dj apparently had his sound "expert" come in and "design" a new system for the bar. The new mains are JBL AC16s(?) and are horribly distorting. The JBL PRX 618 subwoofer was added...It sounds like muuud compared to my T48s! A manager asked me Sat at the end of the night what I thought of the new system. I had to break the news all the things wrong with it...A powered sub for a permanant install, the lack of a processor/limiter, (probable) incorrect wiring for proper ohm load, and just plain lack of real knowledge utilized by this "expert." The only sorta good thing he did was choose a Crown Xti 4002 and 2002.
I guess that's what you get for not asking the dj's opinion that builds his own speakers and listening to an "expert."

djengineer wrote: The new mains are JBL AC16s(?) and are horribly distorting.

Of course they're distorting, this is what they're loaded with:
https://www.jacksmusicfactory.com/defau ... 26J_Driver
I wouldn't use those in my living room, let alone in a club.

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:

djengineer wrote: The new mains are JBL AC16s(?) and are horribly distorting.

Of course they're distorting, this is what they're loaded with:
https://www.jacksmusicfactory.com/defau ... 26J_Driver
I wouldn't use those in my living room, let alone in a club.

It's even worse....it's the JBL225J.....only 5.25".

How many of those things did they put in? Also, that 90x90 horn is really nice...

djengineer wrote:I have been at the same Saturday night venue for 3 years now. I had no choice but to build my own BFM rig and keep it at the bar unless I wanted to play through distorted speakers all night. My 2-DR250s have been mostly for fill near me as both monitor and to fill a void in the dj area. My 2-T48s have done a good job for bass, despite the low ceiling issue and horrible acoustics.
Well, the Fri night dj apparently had his sound "expert" come in and "design" a new system for the bar. The new mains are JBL AC16s(?) and are horribly distorting. The JBL PRX 618 subwoofer was added...It sounds like muuud compared to my T48s! A manager asked me Sat at the end of the night what I thought of the new system. I had to break the news all the things wrong with it...A powered sub for a permanant install, the lack of a processor/limiter, (probable) incorrect wiring for proper ohm load, and just plain lack of real knowledge utilized by this "expert." The only sorta good thing he did was choose a Crown Xti 4002 and 2002.
I guess that's what you get for not asking the dj's opinion that builds his own speakers and listening to an "expert."

In very few cases I would ask a DJ what he would recommend as a sound set-up anywhere.. I would rather ask my cat(if I had any..) as DJ's very rarely have a clue about anything unfortunently.

"Expert" is always a loose term, real expert help in my eyes would be if he could show a good 10-20+ clubs he's installed sound in and everyone have solid sound in them.. so yes you're right but I would probably not dare to rely on you if I were a club owner/manager.. or the situation would ofc be different if he's heard your equipment in his bar?

Break out the earplugs

AC16
Ultra Compact 2-way
Loudspeaker with 1 x 6.5” LF
System Sensitivity1: 90 dB SPL/1W/1m
Rated Maximum SPL (1m)2: 110 dB

$700 apiece for those things? WTF? The money isn't going into materials. Sounds like somebody's taking a cue from Bose.

And, around $1000 for a 1x18 powered sub with a box just big enough to hold the driver.

Really? People pay good money for this ****?

The main selling point for the AC16 is "Ultra-Compact".

110 db max spl? That is a dr250 with 4 watts!

osse wrote:
"Expert" is always a loose term

In this case what the installer is an expert in is fleecing the bar owner, selling him an over-priced under-performing systems totally incapable of meeting the venue needs.

yes you're right but I would probably not dare to rely on you if I were a club owner/manager.. or the situation would ofc be different if he's heard your equipment in his bar?

Did you read the post you replied to, specifically this: I have been at the same Saturday night venue for 3 years now. I had no choice but to build my own BFM rig and keep it at the bar unless I wanted to play through distorted speakers all night. My 2-DR250s have been mostly for fill near me as both monitor and to fill a void in the dj area. My 2-T48s have done a good job for bass, despite the low ceiling issue and horrible acoustics.

IMO the bar owner got what he deserved for not getting the opinion of someone he had on the payroll for three years.

Bryce wrote:The main selling point for the AC16 is "Ultra-Compact".

Of course you're right, and I know it... but I just don't understand this line of thought for a commercial audio system.

For the love of all that is holy... if you want compact, buy an iPod dock! If you want a PA... buy a PA. $700 apiece for a bookshelf speaker with the JBL logo on it is just flogging stupid. They don't make big speakers because they have to use up excess inventory.

Unfortunately, this is not uncommon.

Take your toys home. If they don't appreciate the extra effort then find a place that does. It's a tough thing to do as most of us here really care how things sound and certainly appreciate it when things do sound good, but sometimes you have to let things struggle so that they can appreciate the difference.

Be prepared for them not to be able to tell the difference. And certainly be prepared for them not to want to write a check for the difference.

Your best bet is to have some customers complain and you get to jump in and setup a listening party with the owner (only do it at a time they are not open).

But like everyone else, this is some of the worst "expert" advise I've seen in a while.

Best of Luck,

PA dealer in 'make dat money by improving nothing' shocker... A venue here in town had 'experts' come in and sort two rooms, one massive and one small. In the massive one they put in some line arrays which is fair because the room is pretty big but they did the same in the smaller one which has an 8' ceiling. There's probably about £10k excess of kit in there and the room is simply too small for it to be any use, God help you if you step in there without any ear protection, it's obscenely bad sounding.

I have not taken my BFM rig home yet. It has been there for my 3 years there. Yes, I'd love to take my system elsewhere and make money with it on a Fri night perhaps. It just has been less of a burden for me to have my own system with my own settings, rather than come in Sat after the Fri night DJ has tinkered with eq settings or whatever on the house system.

I honestly loathe having to hear that PRX subwoofer again this Sat night. What a $1200 POS. I wouldv'e given a little credit to them had they bought another XLS4002 and used an SRX728 or something like that.

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:

osse wrote:
"Expert" is always a loose term

In this case what the installer is an expert in is fleecing the bar owner, selling him an over-priced under-performing systems totally incapable of meeting the venue needs.

yes you're right but I would probably not dare to rely on you if I were a club owner/manager.. or the situation would ofc be different if he's heard your equipment in his bar?

Did you read the post you replied to, specifically this: I have been at the same Saturday night venue for 3 years now. I had no choice but to build my own BFM rig and keep it at the bar unless I wanted to play through distorted speakers all night. My 2-DR250s have been mostly for fill near me as both monitor and to fill a void in the dj area. My 2-T48s have done a good job for bass, despite the low ceiling issue and horrible acoustics.

IMO the bar owner got what he deserved for not getting the opinion of someone he had on the payroll for three years.

Yes offcourse you are right in this situation, I'm actually impressed someone who's heard a bfm would consider anything else if the system is set up right.. and I've not even heard DR's full potential yet

I'm more talking in general, but DJ's is not the only ones who suffers from the syndrome of not knowing audio tho..

Did you ask him why he setteled on this less than ideal system?

osse wrote:
Did you ask him why he setteled on this less than ideal system?

Because he trusted his 'expert'.
All one has to do to claim to be an expert is to know just enough more than the customer does to bamboozle them. Incompetent 'experts' abound in every trade.